Q&A with the extraordinary

Written By: Michael D. McClellan |

Chris Van Etten has no regrets.

The former Marine would do it all over again in a heartbeat, even if he knew beforehand that he’d step on that improvised explosive device, blowing a large crater into the earth and losing both of his legs in the process. The United States was nearly a decade into the War in Afghanistan when Van Etten enlisted on July 13, 2009. A troop surge to battle Taliban fighters was underway, and Van Etten soon found himself on his second deployment, serving as an Infantryman with the 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, in the Sangin District of Helmand Province. He knew the risks when he signed up. He understood that he’d likely be deployed to Afghanistan as part of the surge. His parents, Wayne and Leigh Van Etten, were both Air Force veterans, and they had instilled a sense of sacrifice in their son from an early age. He wanted to serve his country. He certainly didn’t want to lose his legs, but the threat of makeshift bombs known as IEDs came with the territory. He understood that the unthinkable could happen at any moment. Van Etten and his fellow Marines would often joke about such scenarios prior to departing base, the gallows humor a coping mechanism for those heading into harm’s way: “Where’s the lieutenant colonel?” “He’s gone.” “Gone where?” “All over the place.”

Boom.

Laughter is often a soldier’s best defense against the unyielding mental stress inherent in the job. The Helmand Province demands a sense of humor. Viewing it from the air, where a mass of mountains gives way to sand, patched with green, snaking south along the Helmand River, is about the only way to safely take it in. To conduct missions there means becoming comfortable with the knowledge that the ground under your feet cannot be trusted.

Chris Van Etten

“Everyone deployed there knows that the next step can be your last,” Van Etten says. “It’s a reality that you learn to deal with. You do your best to keep it in perspective and do your job.”

Helmand Province offers this grim reminder: IEDs have killed more U.S. service members in Afghanistan than guns have, and the enemy will stop at nothing to maim and kill. When the U.S. brought jamming devices to stop bombs triggered by car keys and cell phones, the Taliban built pressure plates: two strands of copper wire suspended between wooden planks that, when stepped on, complete a circuit and detonate the explosives buried in the fine dirt nearby. When metal detectors were brought in to sniff out the copper, the Taliban laid string across fields – a quick yank would trigger the explosion. Bombs have been found made entirely of hollowed logs and matchstick shavings. There are bombs that use light sensors, designed so that the explosives will detonate when exposed to the sun. In Helmand Province, its best to assume that bombs are everywhere – in trees, in walls, on donkeys, under dogs – because they are everywhere, just like the night of June 13, 2012, when Van Etten and his squad were conducting dismounted patrol near the town of Sangin.

“The night started like any other,” Van Etten recalls, “but looking back, there were things that stood out, red flags and warning signs that weren’t noticed or caught at the time.”

It was after midnight, moonless, the stars brilliant but unhelpful. The Marines wore night-vision goggles, and while this technology helps, it isn’t capable of detecting bombs buried in the ground. Bombs like the one that rocked the Marines’ observation post and sent adrenalin pumping. Chris and his best friend, TJ Buane, rushed to the scene, discovering that a squad-mate had stepped on an IED. As they prepared to lift their fallen comrade, Chris stepped on another IED. He lost both legs. TJ didn’t survive.

“TJ was such a great example to all of us,” Van Etten says. “He was on his first deployment to Afghanistan. It was a very tough thing to deal with. In many ways, a lot tougher than recovering from the loss of my legs.”

The Chris Van Etten Story could have gone in so many different directions following that hellish night in Helmand Province. It’s not hard to imagine him confined to a wheelchair, homeless, and addicted to heroin. His could have been a cautionary tale for service to country, the good-looking, All-American kid who goes into the military with his hopes and dreams intact, and who returns from war broken and soulless, his life shattered into a million pieces with no one there to help him put it back together. How many other Chris Van Ettens just give up? How many fall into a depression so deep and dark that there’s no way out, other than a bullet to the brain?

It could have gone down like that.

Chris Van Etten

The weeks and months following that IED blast were marked by the numerous surgeries Van Etten had to endure, his road to recovery filled with pain and dotted with despair, the whole of it enveloped in a complete lack of purpose. You might think that the hard days were in the immediate aftermath of the blast, but Van Etten’s support system was there with him from the jump: his parents, his brothers, medical teams, civilian and military friends alike. They provided love and motivation in equal doses, along with the sense that even though his life would be forever altered, he would not have to face it alone. Eventually, reality set in: His support system couldn’t be with him 24×7. Sitting at home, alone, with no one to push him, Van Etten found it increasingly difficult to keep going.

“I was feeling sorry for myself,” he says. “I was suffering from depression, insomnia, and anxiety. I had become dependent on painkillers. I was in a dark place and couldn’t really find my way out.”

On his own, simple tasks became monstrously hard. Quiet moments became a battleground between happiness and hopelessness. There were the prosthetics to deal with. The phantom pain. The frustration that comes with not being able to walk a flight of stairs or do any of the hundreds of things he took for granted before that IED blast.

“Those moments were tougher to deal with than my time in the hospital. I was totally lost.”

Chris Van Etten

Chris Van Etten needed a plan but didn’t have one. Rare were the days when he didn’t feel sorry for himself, and frequent were the moments when he was overcome with survivor’s guilt: Why did TJ have to die? Why am I still alive? What if that first IED hadn’t gone off in the first place?

At his lowest point, a desperate Chris Van Etten made a life-changing decision: He hit the gym.

“I knew I had to do something productive before I did something I’d regret,” he says. “I went to the gym and felt so much better that I kept going. It was the perfect therapy.”

Before long, the handsome former Marine was pouring everything into his workouts, pumping iron like a fiend and smiling more than he had at any point since the injury. That horrific night in Helmand Province was still there, lodged in his mind, only now it took up a whole lot less space – and served a whole new purpose.

“I was motivated to share my story with as many people as I could,” Van Etten says. “At the time I didn’t know exactly how I was going to go about doing that, but at least I had a goal to drive me forward. I had a reason to be a part of the world again.”

It all started with a photo shoot.

Famed photographer Michael Stokes included Chris Van Etten in his series of coffee table books that featured veterans wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. They showed Van Etten not as a lesser man diminished by his injuries, but rather as someone who had embraced his new identity, leaned into it, and made it his own. With his rugged good looks and chiseled physique, Van Etten also projected the idea that double-amputees can be damned sexy, too.

“The photos definitely got a lot of attention,” he says. “They were a little on the risqué side, that’s for sure. I had no idea they were going open so many doors.”


Fast forward: Chris Van Etten has scored roles on the long-running ABC soap opera, General Hospital, as well as in Paramount Network’s 68 Whiskey. He’s also stripped down to his underwear as part of Jockey’s national “Show ‘Em What’s Underneath” campaign, which features three “everyday heroes” in their Jockey briefs. His short film Walk is a deeply personal and moving account of overcoming his injuries. He’s gotten married. Been blessed with a son. All of it just scratching the surface of what comes next.

“I’m very fortunate that things have worked out the way that they have,” Van Etten says. “I have a full life, a family, a career. I get to share my story and hopefully inspires others. I want people to know that I’ve been in a dark place, and that I’ve been able to climb out. I want them to know that they can climb out, too. Whatever they’re facing, the important thing is to never give up.”

You grew up in a military family. What was that like?

I was born in Ft. Walton Beach Florida. My mom was in the Air Force at the time, and we ended up in Okinawa, Japan, not long afterwards. It was the typical military childhood in that respect, because we moved to a different state or country ten times in 14 years. As much as I enjoyed getting to see new things and experience different parts of the world, it was very hard to make friends because we were always getting to know new people. We were a very tight knit family as a result. I have two brothers, and we grew up depending on each other. Our family finally settled down in one spot right before high school, when we moved to Illinois. I was 14 at the time, and we were there for about six years. I joined the Marine Corps right after that.


What was the Van Etten house like with three boys?

There’s a pretty big age difference between us. I’m six years older than my middle brother, and nine years older than my youngest brother, so there weren’t whole lot of similarities or interests until later on. It’s funny what sticks with you. One of my favorite memories of my middle brother is when he was two years old. We lived in England at the time, and were on a trip to Scotland. I remember jumping off the curb and him trying to imitate me, even though he couldn’t quite jump yet. He’d stand on his tippy toes and try to jump like me. My youngest brother, I remember how much he loved to run. We’d moved to Illinois by then, and we lived right by the middle school. We would go to the track and pretend to race. I would let him win, at least until he started getting too big for his britches – and then I would whip his butt just to make sure that he knew who was boss.

Chris Van Etten

Your parents were in the Air Force. Why did you choose the Marine Corps?

I’m not sure, other than I couldn’t picture myself in the Air Force. Maybe it was a case of me wanting to have different experiences than my parents. But I always knew that I was going to join the military. I didn’t know if it was going to be for four years or 24 years, but when you grow up with military parents like I did, you grow up with that mindset. I knew that I had to serve and give back to my country in some way. I remember trying to picture the coolest thing that I could do in the military, and the answer always came back infantry. That narrowed it down. Was it going to be the Army? The Marines? Around this time I saw that commercial where the Marine slays the dragon and ends up in his dress blues. Talk about an awesome advertisement. I think everybody talked about that. That commercial, combined with the camaraderie that you hear about with the Marine Corps, drew me in.


When did you make your decision?

It was during my junior year of high school. My mom was worried when she found out that I wanted to join the Marines, but she always the kind of person who wanted you to do what made you happy. My dad was a little more resistant, but he was okay with it after I enlisted.


Pop culture question: Have you ever seen the movie Jarhead?

I haven’t watched it in a while, but I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve watch that movie. It’s one of my all-time favorites. That, and Full Metal Jacket.


Did the Marine Corps live up to what you envisioned it would be?

Before you go in, it’s a bit of a fantasy. The whole thing, from boot camp forward, isn’t something that you have ever experienced, so you let your mind wander and your imagination takes over. Then you get there, and what you picture in your mind is very different from reality – but not in a way that you would expect. Sometimes you go into something with certain expectations and you end up getting let down. That wasn’t the case with the Marine Corps. If anything, I was more happy with what it really became that what I envisioned going in.

Chris Van Etten – Photo Courtesy Michael Stokes

What does it mean to be a Marine?

Almost everyone is familiar with the recruiting slogan, “The Few. The Proud. The Marines.” And the same can be said for the Marine Corps motto, “Semper Fidelis,” which is Latin for “always faithful.” Out of all of the major branches, we are the smallest one. Because there’s not a lot of us, I was always under the impression that you had to be fierce to be a Marine. You had to look out for each other. The bar is high, so you constantly hold yourself accountable to that standard. I enlisted with the mindset that being a Marine is full throttle. When it’s time to fight, it’s time to fight hard. When it’s time to party, it’s time to party hard. Everything that you do, you have to do it with 100% effort. Then, after you’ve become a Marine, you hold your head up high because being a Marine is an honor. It’s not a title given lightly, and in boot camp they really drill that into your head. They always say that there is no such thing as an ex-Marine. It’s something that you cherish and hold onto for the rest of your life.


Would you describe the Marine Corps as a unique brotherhood?

Very much so. That brotherhood is what enticed me into it. Becoming a Marine reinforces the concept of family. You innately understand that your fellow Marines are going to take care of you, and that you’re going to be there for them. It’s an unbreakable bond. You get really close with these guys. It doesn’t matter if it’s working long days together stateside, spending every waking second side-by-side in the field, or working combat missions overseas. All we have is each other, so that brotherhood is grows incredibly strong very quickly.


You literally put your lives on the line for your country. That alone seems to demand total commitment to your fellow Marine.

It’s a little bit like that movie Starship Troopers, where you do everything together and it’s also this crazy, hot mess. There’s this unspoken communication that develops. Nobody has to say anything. Your fellow Marines are going to be there when you need them. It doesn’t matter if it’s a fight in town or a fight in Afghanistan. You instinctively know that they’ve got your back, no matter what.


Even when something goes horribly wrong.

I lost my legs stepping on an IED during night patrol in Afghanistan, and I would do it all over again. I wouldn’t think twice about it. The only regret that I’ve ever had was that my buddy TJ was also killed. If there is one thing that I could change, it would be that.

Chris Van Etten and General Hospital co-star Risa Dorken
Photo Courtesy Chris Van Etten

Your story is one of incredible inspiration. Please take me back to that night in Afghanistan, June 2012.

I would say that it started out like any of the other nights. We had been doing a lot of night patrols, which really wasn’t something that was being done very much at the time because the enemy still had control of the night. We had night optics and all of that stuff, but it’s nothing in comparison to operating in your own backyard. The plan had been to patrol around the area during the day, so that we had a good idea of what our surroundings would be at night. Unfortunately we didn’t get to do that, so everybody was already a little on edge.

You know how they say that hindsight is 2020? What happened that night is one of those things where you look back and you say, “Well, here’s this red flag, and here’s that red flag.” For example, our point man – who had never once gotten lost during the entire deployment – made a wrong turn, and we ended up off course from where we were supposed to be. We ended up finding our way back to the spot where we were going to set up our observation post. Everything was fine up to that point – we set up our security, and we had our sectors that we were watching. In fact, it was a pretty uneventful night, right up until we were getting ready to leave. At this point I should say that we had set up close to a wall – another red flag – and from the very beginning our squad leader was concerned. He’d been through a couple of different combat deployments, so he’d pretty much seen it all. He kept reminding everyone to stay away from that wall, because if there was anything out there, it was going to be in that area. Everyone understood what he was saying, but it was also late and people were tired. We were getting ready to pick up everything and head back to base. That’s when I heard a loud boom.


Someone stepped on an IED.

Everybody mobilized.


Did chaos ensue?

IEDs aren’t an uncommon thing. Before we’re deployed, we are trained on how to respond. Each team in the squad knows exactly what to do, and we rehearse it many times before we go out on patrol. As soon as we heard the explosion, all of the teams jumped into action. The first team to reach the blast site is the medical team, so they rushed over to treat the casualty. The team that I was on, our job was to set up the landing zone for the helo [helicopter]. We finished that up, and then we started setting up perimeter security. That’s when my buddy TJ yelled over and said that they needed someone else to come and help. I was the closest, so I rushed over and found TJ, who said that my buddy Brad had stepped on and IED. He explained that although they weren’t sure yet, it looked like he had lost both of his legs.

Chris Van Etten in the American military comedy-drama television series 68 Whiskey

What went through your mind?

At that point your adrenaline is pumping, and your only focus is on helping your fellow Marine. It wasn’t the first time that I had seen something like that, but it was the first time that it involved somebody who was close to me. Right away your only focus is on doing whatever it takes to get him out of this situation and get him the help he needs.


I’m sure the coordination and teamwork in those moments can mean the difference between life and death.

I can’t stress enough how great the entire team was at this whole scenario. Our corpsman, Doc Crowley, was phenomenal. He was on top of the situation, and had already applied tourniquets by the time I got there. All we really had to do was get a stretcher laid out so that we could put Brad on top of it, and then get him to an area where the helo could land and pick him up.


Did you make it to the helo?

As Doc Crowley was finishing everything up, TJ and I were laying out the stretcher. As I step on top of the stretcher to get ready to lift Brad up, that’s when the second IED goes off. As surprising as this might sound, I remember pretty much all of it. A lot of guys get knocked out. I don’t know why, but for some reason I didn’t. I do remember getting tossed up into the air. It felt like I was doing cartwheels, although, in reality, I probably only flipped once or twice. I remember landing on my shoulder and my head. The backpack that I was carrying was pretty heavy, and it had some hard stuff on it. As the backpack came down, I remember it hitting my head and making me lightheaded for ten-to-15 seconds. I didn’t really remember who I was, or where I was even at, but once my senses started coming back I realized that I had just stepped on an IED.

Chris Van Etten

Did you panic?

No, I didn’t really panic. I just realized that I needed to get myself out of this hole. I remember that I kind of pushed and dug myself up out of it, and the first thing that I did when I could finally set up straight was look up at the sky. I took a deep breath, and I was like, “Okay, that’s a good sign. If I can breathe then that means there’s nothing wrong with my cardiovascular system.” I could taste the blood and the dirt, but as far as I could tell, everything seemed to be there. This was before I looked down. It felt like my legs were still attached, but they weren’t responding to my commands. I thought I was paralyzed. It just so happened that the light on the end of my rifle was still turned on, and the light was reflecting off the wall. I looked down, and that’s when I realized what had happened.

That’s when the pain hit. I kind of compare to the time when I was a kid. I used to ride my bike all the time, and there was this one time when I crashed. I got up thinking that I was fine, and then I looked and my entire left side was bruised and bloodied. Then, all of a sudden, that was when the pain set in. That’s how this was. Once I saw what had happened, then the pain came in like a tidal wave. I guess the best way that I could explain it is that it felt like my legs were on fire. Almost like someone had set a torch to them. Surprisingly , the most pain that I felt was in my groin. It almost felt like I was being kicked by a horse.


How do you keep calm in a moment like that?

My first thought was that we train for this – actually, we even jokingly talk about it before going out on most patrols. We’ll look around and say, “Say goodbye to your legs. This will be the last time that you use them.” It sounds morbid, but it almost prepares you for a scenario like this. So when it did happen to me, instead of freaking out like you might expect, I knew what to do. I was like, “Okay, I’ve got to start putting tourniquets on my legs so that I don’t bleed out.”


Who helped you?

Luckily, Doc Crowley was in the crater that Brad’s IED had made. His head wasn’t exposed, so he didn’t get hurt. He ran over and started putting tourniquets on my legs with me. I sat back as we were finishing up, and that’s when I felt something off to my left. Then I looked over and saw TJ. I’m not going to get into a lot of the details, but you could tell that he wasn’t looking super well. He wasn’t looking good at all. As soon as Crowley was done with me, he went over to TJ and tried to treat him. Then the rest of the squad came over. They carried us to a collection area where the helo was going to pick us up.

Unfortunately, the blast had knocked off Crowley’s backpack, which is where he stored all of his pain medication, so I had to bear the brunt of the pain until the helo came. They stripped me down as soon as they got me into the helo, assessed any other damages that I may have had, and gave me pain medication for the relief. It was about 40 minutes from beginning to end, but as you can imagine it felt like an eternity. I had a little bit of an hallucination on the helicopter ride – it was something that I can’t even begin to explain [laughs]. When I woke up, I was in the hospital.

Chris Van Etten

How much did your military training help you make it through such a horrific event?

When I was in the hospital, everyone there who was injured by an IED would share stories of what had happened. For a lot of the guys – at least those of us who were conscious through it – the stories are basically the same. Even with something that traumatic, but we didn’t completely lose it like you might think. Maybe it’s because we trained for it, or maybe it’s because we’ve desensitized ourselves to the fact that it could happen to one of us next. Maybe it’s the fact that you’ve just stepped on a bomb. Whatever the case, the Hollywood trope of freaking out is not super common.


Let’s talk about what happened in the weeks and months that followed.

Your adrenaline is so high when it’s all happening, and then you’re in and out of consciousness those first few weeks afterward. Everything is a blur, and not just because of the drugs. You’re getting transported to different hospitals, and you’re going under the knife every day or every other day, so you really don’t have time to process it. I usually tell people that it was around month three or four, when I wasn’t in the hospital and I wasn’t on meds – or at least as many meds – that life actually slowed down. It’s those quiet nights when you can’t sleep and nothing’s going on that you realize just how different everything is. And you begin to question not only who you are, but whether your life is ever going to be remotely the same. When you’re missing your legs – or missing any limbs, for that matter – it’s hard to adjust to that.


Was it important for you to set goals during your rehab?

Absolutely. My first goal was to get out of inpatient, start physical therapy, and begin rehab. Once I did that, it was, “Okay, now I’ve got to get back on two feet. I’ve got to get my prosthetics.” Then once I got my prosthetics, it was all about learning how to walk. These were very temporary, short-range goals. I didn’t have any long-range goals in the hospital, which was a big reason why I didn’t have anything driving me forward once I got out. As a result, I ended up in a very dark place. I didn’t have a purpose, which is something that everyone needs in their lives.


How hard was it to keep from being consumed by depression?

Incredibly hard. My mindset early on was that adjusting to a life without legs was going to be impossible. That, mixed with the fact that I was still coping with TJ’s death, and the survivor’s guilt of why I made it and he didn’t, made it extremely difficult. Honestly, if it wasn’t for my support system, who knows how things would have ended up. My mom basically stayed with me the whole year that I was in rehab. My dad came out when he could. My brothers came out when they could. And then having the Wounded Warriors who showed me that it was possible to live life without legs, those things helped things from turning out a lot different.

Chris Van Etten and his service dog, Harley, present with Brandon McMillan at the 45th Annual Daytime Emmy Awards
Photo Courtesy Chris Van Etten and Brava Creative Group

From what I’ve read, your mother was a true inspiration.

I watched my mom go through breast cancer when I was in high school. I remember when it was at its worst, and she was on chemo and stuck in bed, and unable to do anything. Then I remember watching the person that she became on the other end – a happy, vibrant, positive woman who could see the good in anybody, and who could just strike up a conversation with anyone. Seeing her go through that, and then reminding myself that if she can be that strong going through cancer, then I can get through physical therapy and rehab.  When things got really tough, she provided the motivation to keep moving, to keep pushing on.


Even though she was also military, I’m sure it was hard for her to hear that you’d been injured.

When something like this happens, the Marine Corps either calls the parents or they go to the house. It happened that my parents were out of town at the time, so they called and got my mom on the phone. When they started out by saying that this was so-and-so from the Marine Corps headquarters, her first thought was that I’d been killed. My dad actually finished listening to the message, and then he was able to tell her that I was alive but dealing with some significant injuries. When I called her later she was crying, and at that point I just said, “Mom, I’m fine. I’m coming home…just a little bit shorter than the last time you saw me [laughs].” As soon as she heard that, she knew that I was going to be okay.


What was the big turning point for you?

It was actually around the one year mark. As you can imagine, the anniversary date of the incident is pretty sensitive, and that first one hit hard. It was an emotionally charged time, and the nightmares came back full force. I wasn’t sleeping. I was extremely depressed. I had just gotten out of the hospital, so I literally had nothing. I was about as low as I could go. I had no purpose. I wasn’t going to physical therapy. I wasn’t trying to learn how to walk. I wasn’t doing anything but sitting at home. I had all the time in the world to think. It was probably the darkest time in my life, and then, somehow, I just got sick of feeling sorry for myself. I got up one morning and decided that I needed to do something. I needed to have a reason to get out of bed, otherwise I would lie there with no purpose. That’s when I decided to go to the gym and start working out.


What’s it like being at that crossroads?

Deciding to go in a positive direction is harder than you might think. The natural tendency is to give up, and I think that’s why a lot of the men and women who get put in that situation end up going down the negative route. It’s really easy to feel sorry for yourself. I don’t think anyone would have blamed me if I had decided to hate the world and hate my life and be mad about everything, but I’d seen what that was doing to my buddies. Some of them were still in the hospital because they simply refused to try to get better. I didn’t want that to be me. I didn’t want to just be some injured guy. I still wanted to be Chris. I still wanted to have a life. I still wanted to do things. I realized that I couldn’t do that if I was just feeling sorry for myself all of the time.

Chris Van Etten

Was going to the gym a continuation of your rehab, or was this next level stuff?

I was trying to learn how to work out with the legs and do some serious lifting. The more I did it the better I felt – physically, mentally, and emotionally – but it didn’t keep me from having bad days. There’s one day in particular that stands out, when I was really feeling sorry for myself. It was just me in the gym for a while. As I was finishing up, an older lady came in. We didn’t say anything to each other, we just nodded casually, and then I grabbed all of my stuff and left. A couple of hours later a friend of mine sent me a message with a screenshot, and he was like, “I think my friend is talking about you.” It was the same lady from the gym. She had posted something on her Facebook about how she was having a bad day, and then she saw a veteran who also happened to be a double-amputee. She wrote say that seeing me was a reminder that maybe her life wasn’t as bad as she’d thought it was just a few hours earlier.  For me, it was a classic light bulb moment. I suddenly realized that I have been blessed with a gift, and that I can turn this thing that happened to me into a way to motivate others. From that moment being a positive role model became my purpose. I didn’t want people to feel sorry for me. I wanted to people to be motivated by me. That played a big part in my decision to rebuild myself into being someone different.


You started modeling and acting, and you’ve appeared in several national ad campaigns. How did all of this come about?

Working out really helped boost my confidence, and not just in how I looked. I started to focus on my purpose, which included looking for projects where I could share my message with as many people as possible. It was around this time that I heard about Michael Stokes, who was doing a photo series on injured veterans. I saw some of the shots that he’d taken of Alex Minsky, who’s now a friend of mine, and I decided to reach out. The photos were part of a project showcasing wounded and amputee veterans flaunting prosthetics and rock-hard abs in celebration of their post-war bodies, but when I saw them it was more about the power behind the pictures than the sex appeal. For me, the photos showed the world that just because I was different, I didn’t have to be different. I could still be this strong person who could do anything, even though I was missing my legs.

Things took off quickly after those photos were released. I started doing a lot of modeling for book authors, which eventually led to a contract with Jockey, the underwear and workout apparel company. At that point I sat down with my wife and the team representing me – Lisa Strickland, my publicist [and founder and principal of Brava Creative Group], and my management team and had a serious talk about whether I wanted to pursue a career in Hollywood. I’m very grateful that they decided to represent me, because they helped me land General Hospital, 68 Whiskey, as well as a number of other Hollywood events and speaking engagements. It’s been a lot of fun. The best part is that I get to share my story to a bigger audience, and hopefully inspire others who are going through tough times.


I hear acting life on a soap is very fast-paced.

Yeah, General Hospital is extremely fast-paced. You basically shoot an entire episode every day of the workweek. You have to really nail down your lines and know what you’re going to do within three or four takes. It’s a lot different from a regular nighttime show, where you’ve got a whole year to do 12 episodes. I’ve been very fortunate to work on both ends of the spectrum, and they both have their pros and their cons. I have a lot of respect for the actors who have been doing soaps for long periods of time, people like Eric Braeden, because soaps are a beast and you have to keep up.

Chris Van Etten with Michael Fairman of Michael Fairman TV.
Photo Courtesy Brava Creative Group

In what ways, if any, did your military career help your acting career?

I think it helped out because acting can get pretty stressful. You have to be able to adapt on the spot. If something’s not coming off the way that the producer or director is wanting, then you have to change things up on the fly. That’s one of the first things they teach you in the military, and that’s that things don’t always go according to plan. As an actor, you can spend all day rehearsing your lines a certain way, and then when you get to the set they may want it done completely differently. You have to figure it out right there. It’s the same thing with the military. There were times when we were on patrol in Afghanistan, and we’d learn of possible threats that we didn’t have the capability of dealing with in at the moment. So, you adapt and find a new route. Handling stress and adapting is key in both worlds.


Acting involves a lot of networking. Is this something that you do to find work?

Actually, I try not to make a big deal about it. In my mind, I’m by no means famous or anything like that, so I try to let my personality do the talking. If someone happens to know of my role on General Hospital, that’s great. If I’m talking to somebody who is interested in learning more, then I’ll engage in that conversation. But I try not to go around and say, “I’m Chris Van Etten and I’m on a soap, you should consider me for a role in your next project.” However, I am helping to break down barriers, and open up opportunities for actors with disabilities. The fact that I am getting parts because I can act, and not because I’m an injured veteran, is also exciting to me. I’ve been a presenter on the Daytime Emmy Awards, and I’ve been interviewed by Michael Fairman of Michael Fairman TV, which is great exposure for me as an actor. People with legitimate disabilities are sought after in Hollywood now. It hasn’t always been this way, so I think we’re making good progress in that direction. 


As hard as it might be to believe, there are two Chris Van Ettens involved with General Hospital. The other is an award-winning writer. Do people ever get the two of you confused?

Yes, quite a bit [laughs]. I’ve gotten to meet the other Chris Van Etten, he’s an awesome guy and a great writer. I do get confused with him, especially on Twitter. People will tweet to me and offer suggestions about the storylines, and they expect me to make those changes. My Twitter bio read, “No, I’m not the writer.” [Laughs.]

Chris Van Etten and General Hospital co-star Risa Dorken
Photo Courtesy Chris Van Etten

Let’s talk about your modeling career. The Jockey ad campaign is amazing.

I have always been very selective about the companies that I work with. I want to be proud of my relationship with that company, and Jockey is no exception. The relationship started through the recommendation of a friend of mine, who said that Jockey was looking for a disabled veteran for a nationwide ad campaign. I was immediately interested. I did my research and applied for it. I had actually been wearing Jockey underwear before I even started working with them, so there was some familiarity there. But what impressed me most during my research was that Jockey is very much a family-run business. As I got to know the people that were running the campaign, and the people behind the company, I could tell that this was something that I’d be proud doing. I truly appreciate the work that they have put into it and the message that is behind it. The fact that they are celebrating everyday people who are going out there and making differences, and the fact that I got to be one of those people, was a very honorable thing for me.


Please tell me about the short film Walk.

That was actually a passion project that turned out to be very well done. To be honest, I didn’t think it was going to get the reaction that it got. I also didn’t think a lot of people were going to see it, and for some reason I didn’t think anyone would really care. Then it came out and it has been well-received by so many people who were moved by the message behind it. It’s another one of those things that I’m really proud of, because it showed parts of me that I wasn’t really comfortable showing the world – specifically, me without my legs on, which shows the vulnerable side of being an amputee.


Please tell me a little about 68 Whiskey.

68 Whiskey was a really fun experience. Unfortunately, my character dies, because I would’ve loved to have continued on the show [laughs]. Like I was saying earlier, there is a big difference between doing a soap and a primetime show with 12 episodes a season. With 68 Whiskey, I could really focus on each scene. My character, Louisville, is anything but an untarnished hero. It was like that throughout the cast. The show was about real people with real problems trying to do a job.


I hear you are a Star Wars fan. If you could play any role in the next Star Wars film, what would it be?

I am a huge Star Wars fan! More specifically, I’m a Darth Vader fan.

Chris Van Etten – Photo Courtesy Chris Van Etten and Brava Creative Group

Why Darth Vader?

Because this guy is a quadruple amputee, and he is the strongest force in the universe. Evil things aside, if a quadruple amputee could be that powerful, then what about a double amputee? I’m sure that I can get a few things done [laughs].


Let’s talk fatherhood. How has that changed you?

Having a kid changes everything. I did not know that I was capable of loving someone as much as a parent loves their child. It’s funny, you don’t realize just how selfish you are until you have a kid. Until then, I did everything for myself. Now, everything I do is with my child in mind. I want to make sure that my child has a good future, and I want to do everything I can to be a good dad.

When you’re in the infantry, you come to grips with the fact that sooner or later you’re going to die, and a little bit of that recklessness followed me into my civilian life. But now, with the kid, things are very different. I wouldn’t necessarily say that I’m a worry wart, but I do want to make sure that I stay on top of my health – and not just to look good, but to make sure that I can be around for as long as I can and provide for my son’s future.

Chris Van Etten and his son, Milo Taylor Van Etten

If you could sit down and have a beer with anybody, living or dead, who would that be?

Without question, that would be my mom. Unfortunately, she got cancer again and it spread to her lungs, and she wasn’t able to beat it this time. She passed away last Thanksgiving, so to be able to have one more conversation with her would be amazing.


Final Question: If you had one piece of advice for others when it comes to overcoming adversity, what would that be?

I don’t know if this sounds basic or stereotypical, but you can’t give up. It’s so easy to fall into that trap, but everybody on this planet has a capacity to make a difference. Whether you make a difference on a mass scale, or with just a few people, what you do matters.

Written By: Michael D. McClellan |

Michael Lombardi is used to laying it all on the line. Whether charging into a burning building as firefighter Mike Silletti in the critically acclaimed FX series Rescue Me, or rocking out as the lead singer for Apache Stone, the ruggedly handsome multihyphenate has built his career by going full throttle. His latest project – as a producer and star of the heart-wrenching Sno Babies, which depicts the grim realities of addiction and its effect on a middle class town – brings into full repose this unmitigable fact: The opioid epidemic in the United States is no longer relegated to places like Atlanta’s Bluff neighborhood, notorious for its gangs and its open air heroin market, where dealers swarm unfamiliar cars looking for new customers. Opioids have rolled through Middle America, decimating entire towns and snuffing out some of our best and brightest, killer drugs omnipotent in their reach and godlike in their sway over the addicted.

Into this crisis steps Lombardi, the creative force behind the first feature from Better Noise Films, a new venture from entertainment mogul Allen Kovac. Together, Lombardi and Kovac – whose storied career includes managing such artists as Bee Gee’s, Luther Vandross, Blondie, Meatloaf, Mötley Crüe, and The Cranberries – have crafted a gritty, character-driven film that peers voyeuristically into the descent of Kristen, the quintessential girl next door whose addiction starts with one oxy pill.


“The film is about a beautiful young girl from a very well-to-do family, a high schooler with the brightest future in the world ahead of her,” Lombardi says. “She has the full support of her parents, who have hired an SAT tutor and who dream of their daughter going to a great school like Princeton or Harvard. All of that changes when she goes to party and she’s introduced to an opioid by an injured football player. From that moment forward, this bright, rising star who is so full of potential morphs into someone quite different. Sno Babies shows us how her life spirals out of control after that dark turn, so the film is really about her demise.”

Directed by talented filmmaker Bridget Smith, Sno Babies is fictional only in the sense that the characters are representative of what’s happening in towns across the country. Smith’s research, which includes time spent with several current and recovering addicts, gives Sno Babies serious street cred. Visiting the Philly neighborhood of Kensington, the largest open-air narcotics market for heroin on the East Coast, provided Smith with a glimpse into the abyss: Dealers out in the open, calling out brand names, some even handing out free samples; addicts injecting heroin needles into their arms, their necks, and the skin between their toes; zombies everywhere, some of them limp and nodding off, others laying on the ground looking dead.

Smith walks down this dark road with Kristen, brilliantly played by relative newcomer Katie Kelly. We can’t help but ache for her character, from an early scene when Kristen is violated at a party, right through to the closing credits. The critics are going to love Kelly’s performance. Audiences will be chillingly reminded how one bad decision can change everything.

Katie Kelly and Paola Andino – Photo Courtesy Rogers & Cowan PMK

“Bridget spent a lot of time with both young co-stars, Katie Kelly and Paola Andino, before shooting this film,” Lombardi says. “Bridget is a wonderful director, and she’s also naturally warm and supportive. I think these were critical elements when it came to making this film, because they were willing to take that risk with her. If you trust the director, then you are willing to go there. Bridget really nurtured these two young ladies, earned their trust, and got the best performances out of them as a result.”

None of this would have been possible without the one-two punch of Lombardi and Kovac. Sno Babies is a product of their shared vision, Lombardi smitten by Mike Walsh’s script and Kovac drawn in by the subject matter.

“Allen continues to put his time, energy, and money into fighting Substance Abuse Disorder, especially where artists and actors are concerned,” Lombardi says. “We’re losing talents like Prince, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Heath Ledger to this epidemic. Allen is doing everything he can to stem the tide.”

For his part, Lombardi continues to lay it on the line. He’s now the Vice President of Production for Better Noise Films, and will star in the company’s second major release, The Retaliators, scheduled to drop in 2021. The William Esper grad is a dad now, a tennis fanatic, and a hard rocker who still jams onstage with his band. His 93-episode run on Rescue Me continues to open doors to new opportunities. Sno Babies is just scratching the surface.

“This is a phenomenal film with a powerful message,” Lombardi says. “I’m very proud of the way it turned out, and I hope we’ve done our small part in this battle against the opioid crisis.”

Sno Babies will be released on Sept. 29.

What attracted you to the script?

In part because there’s a stereotype that still exists in people’s minds. There are a lot of people who still think that opioid and heroin addicts are only those who are homeless and living on the street. I was just as guilty of that same false judgment at times, because, as a young man, that was what I saw. Everything is different today. This epidemic isn’t confined to the inner city. It’s affecting every corner of the world in which we live. It has forced us to reconsider every assumption we’ve ever made about addiction. These are real lives being destroyed – human beings that have a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a home. The threat is real, it’s unprecedented, and it can literally affect anyone. What I loved when I read the script is this: Here’s a young girl who you would think this could never happen to, not in a million years. She has so much going for her; she’s smart, attractive, and popular…and yet one bad decision changes the trajectory of her life forever. It is quite a journey, and it gets dark at times, but I don’t think that there is any other way to tell the story of this horrible crisis.


Did you start out as a creative producer on Sno Babies?

I got into this film as an actor first, and then ended up as a producer. I took the role because I really enjoyed the script, and because it was being shot in Philadelphia. My character and my storyline weaves in and out of the two high school girls’ lives who are the center of this film. He certainly crosses roads throughout – in in a big way – as the film progresses.


How did you meet Allen Kovac?

Our kids go to school together in Connecticut. I’ve had several bands, and had a record deal back in the day with MySpace Records, so we had a natural connection because of music. Then, on the acting side, for seven seasons I was a series regular on a television show called Rescue Me. My band was actually written into that show, so there was that hook as well.

We met at a charity event that I did at our kids’ school. My band performed, and I hosted it like a late night show – I even had an opening monologue [laughs]. We had this shared a love of music, and he knew that I was a musician and an actor, so we hit it off immediately. At some point that evening he said, ‘Hey, maybe we can get involved in a film together some day.’ If you know Allen, when he says something he means it. He also talked about his other passion, which was bringing art education to the kids in our small town. He felt that the kids growing up there weren’t exposed to a ton of art, and thought that it might be a nice opportunity to start an internship program tailored to the arts. That way kids wouldn’t have to travel to New York City or other places for that kind of exposure. We just kept throwing ideas around like that, and I could tell that Allen had an open mind about a lot of things. I quickly recognized that he was the kind of guy that I could work with.

Allen Kovac – Courtesy of Eleven Seven Label Group

How did Allen become involved in Sno Babies?

Allen already had a long and successful career managing acts like the Bee Gees, Blondie, and Mötley Crüe. Then, in 2006, he started Better Noise Music, which became an immediate success. Mötley Crüe, Five Finger Death Punch, and The HU are part of Better Noise label today. His next move was to jump into film and original content by starting Better Noise Films, which is part of the Better Noise Entertainment shingle.

Well, I happened to be at dinner one night with Allen and [Mötley Crüe bassist] Nikki Sixx, and they were talking about the heroin epidemic and this opioid crisis. I was like, ‘Wow, I’m doing a film about this exact subject matter!’ So I told Allen about Sno Babies. We talked a little bit and then he said, ‘Look, come over to the house on Sunday and let’s talk some more about this project.’

I went over to his house, and we chatted for close to four hours in his den. The guy just works so hard – his little boy had to come in at one point and say, ‘Dad, let’s go. It’s Sunday.’ [Laughs.] He sat with me and I told him all about the film. He had so much interest in it – and so much passion for it – that I could tell that he was all in. That really jumpstarted where we are today. I got a sizzle reel together for him, and then, after several meetings and many months of consideration, Allen ended up selecting this small, independent film to be the first project in the Better Noise catalog. Not long after that I was asked to come onboard as the Vice President of Production. So that’s basically how we started Better Noise Films, and how Sno Babies became our venture’s first movie.


How hands-on was Allen?

Allen immediately rolled up his sleeves and immersed himself in the writing, the rewrites, the pick-up shots, the reshoots, and a lot of different things in order to help the story crystalize and deliver its message, which is deeply personal to both Allen and Nikki Sixx.


Allen Kovac has long believed that the industry needs to better support artists, helping them to maintain their health and take responsibility for their “bad deeds.” This film seems to fall in line with that philosophy.

Very much so, and that is such a great point. The mission of the film is to save lives. In fact, both Allen and Nikki Sixx are so passionate about this cause and hold it so close to their hearts that Better Noise Films will be donating its share of the profits to the Global Recovery Initiatives Foundation, where both men are new board members. All of the artists’ royalties from the soundtrack are also being donated to the fund, and Allen is going to match their contributions. The soundtrack includes two tracks from SIXX:A.M., and Top 10 hits from Country/Rock star Cory Marks (Outlaws & Outsiders) and from chart toppers Bad Wolves (the #1 hit Sober). There’s also new music from Eva Under Fire, From Ashes to New, and Escape The Fate.


The message wrapped inside of Sno Babies is indeed powerful stuff.

People can look at this film and say that it’s Hollywood, that it’s fiction, that it’s just a made up storyline with made up characters who aren’t real addicts. Sno Babies is a film based on facts. The writer, Michael Walsh, has really done his research on the subject matter. The thing is, this film is a representation of what is really going on in our country. The fabric of small towns is being torn apart by this crisis, and promising young lives are being destroyed every single day.


You don’t have to look very far to find someone who has been touched by the opioid epidemic.

There is a very small town in Connecticut, and every single person that I’ve spoken to in that town has been affected by this crisis in some way. Whether it’s an aunt, an uncle, a brother, a sister, a parent, or a friend…everyone you talk to has a story. I was having a conversation with the high school ice hockey coach in this small town, and he told me that one of his players died of a heroin overdose at home, in his own bedroom. This is happening in Middle Class America. This is happening to kids living in good homes with good, hardworking parents. That’s the other thing I wanted to express to you about this movie and why it appealed to me. The parents care. They care so much, but they are working all of the time in order to provide for their families. Because they’re not as connected, things like this slip right under their noses.


The film really makes that point so well. So many of these victims come from loving homes.

That is so very true. You can’t watch the movie and not get it. The parents are extremely busy with work. They are under financial stress, and they are trying their best to provide for their two daughters. The mother’s boss is putting pressure on her to meet quota, which causes stress on the marriage, which in turn is another reason the warning signs are missed.


Let’s talk about the cast, specifically the two leads.

Sno Babies is a film that’s completely character-driven. The lead of the film is a girl named Katie Kelly. I think she is going to break out from this film. She hasn’t done a ton before this, but her work in the film is really spectacular. You can’t take your eyes off of her, from a promising beginning through her descent into darkness. Her best friend in the film is Hannah, played by Paola Andino. Paola is very young, but she’s done a lot. She was on was on a Nickelodeon show, Every Witch Way, for a long time.

What impressed me the most about these two young ladies was their dedication to the script and their work ethic. The subject matter is very intense, and the script is dark. These two characters go on a journey together, and I have to say, I was so impressed with how Katie and Paola jumped off that cliff as actors. And then, when I saw the rough cuts, I was blown away. They are both fantastic. They carry the film. Without them, we wouldn’t be talking right now. They are so good, and they really tell the story beautifully.

Bridget Smith, Katie Kelly, and Paola Andino

Better Noise Films has several other projects in the works. Please tell me about The Retaliators.

I brought the script to Allen and he really liked it. It’s a great script – it’s unique in that it’s a psychological thriller with horror elements and heart. It touches upon morality. Religion. Justice. Like Sno Babies, this film is character-driven. Bridget is actually co-directing this film with Samuel Gonzalez, Jr., which makes for a great pairing: Bridget is such a wonderful storyteller, and she relates so well to the characters, and Samuel Gonzalez brings such great skill as a director of thrillers and horror. He is so stylized in visual – his shots are incredible. His work is David Fincher-esque. So, the two of them really complement each other. It’s not like one of them is stronger than the other. The combination of them both in this film is spectacular.


Where did you find the script for The Retaliators?

It goes back to when I had my record deal. I used to write with these two brothers, Darren and Jeff Allen Geare, and we became friends. I hadn’t spoken to them in a while, but I needed some help with a song that I’d written for that charity event, a song called Heaven and Hell Collide. So I called them up and we started talking about all of the scripts that they had been writing over the past several years, and one of them in particular caught my attention. I immediately asked them to send it to me, and that’s how I found The Retaliators.


What does the cast look like for this film?

It stars Marc Menchaca from Ozark and Stephen King’s The Outsider. We also have Joseph Gatt, who is a veteran actor who had a really nice role in the show Banshee Origins, as well as roles in Game of Thrones and Tim Burton’s Dumbo. So he’s been around, and he’s fantastic in it.

Here’s the wonderful thing: The musicians that we were able to use for the Sno Babies soundtrack, we were also able to put them into cameo roles in this film. I’m really proud to say that it is not gratuitous in any manner. If you were watching the movie, and if you didn’t know they were musicians, you would think that they were actors. Five Finger Death Punch plays a motorcycle gang, and you couldn’t cast better actors to play the part. They are fantastic in it. I could go on and on. The musicians also came ready to play. They were prepared, and they brought it big, every one of them. So they were phenomenal with their cameo roles, as well as supporting the soundtrack for the that movie.


Let’s talk about Michael Lombardi. You attended the prestigious William Esper Studio in New York. There have been some notable alumni go through that program, including Jeff Goldblum, Patricia Heaton, and Larry David.

Another great – and I love this guy – Sam Rockwell went to Esper. I love that school so much. It was such a wonderful foundation for me. Marc Menchaca, who is one of the leads in The Retaliators with me, is also an Esper grad. He and I have a lot of great scenes together in that film, which is another reason I can’t wait for it to come out. Esper was really special. It’s an actor’s school, in that it’s all about the work.

Michael Lombardi – Rescue Me – Photo Courtesy FX

You were a musician at the time, but you transitioned over to acting.

I was a young guy in New York City, playing in several bands and pursuing my career as a musician. Then, one summer, I took an acting class at William Esper. It was an intro class, and I really fell in love with acting. Not long after that I started to produce small plays. One of them was John Patrick Shanley’s Danny in the Deep Blue Sea. It’s an intense, two-person play. We did it in a small little theater, with barely 100 people in the audience. That play was as if you were looking through a window into someone’s life, but you shouldn’t be watching. Such a raw story.

I enrolled at William Esper not long after that and went there for two years. From there I landed my first professional acting gig, as a bartender on Saturday Night Live. Kate Hudson and Radiohead were the guests, so that was really cool. I got to watch Radiohead rehearse, which was an awesome experience because of my love for music.


And then you landed a pivotal role on the short-lived ABC crime comedy The Job.

I played ‘Manuel the Cabana Boy’ on an episode called The Vacation [laughs]. That happened because I met a guy named Denis Leary, and we became friends. One day, he was like, ‘Mikey, here, read this,’ and he threw me the script to a show called Rescue Me. I  went in and auditioned for Sony, Fox, and FX, and ended up getting the part.


You worked with Denis Leary on a mockumentary just before joining him on Rescue Me.

It was a Comedy Central show called Project Searchlight. This show was basically a spoof on Project Greenlight, which was created by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon to give first-time filmmakers the chance to direct a feature film. I played a young guy who gets to make his own TV show, but everything falls apart. It was really funny. Every single thing that could go wrong goes wrong.

Michael Lombardi

Rescue Me is the show that really put you on the map.

Absolutely. I read for Rescue Me and got the part, and then I went on a seven year, 100-episode journey as a series regular. It was life-changing. Looking back, I realize now how much I learned from Denis. He was not only the star of Rescue Me, but he was also the producer and co-creator of the show. Being around him on that show for seven years, I learned so much that has come into play for me now at this point in my career. It helped prepare me for my role with Better Noise Films, and my new life as a producer. I think you’ll see the results with Sno Babies. It’s a great film with an important message.

Written By: Michael D. McClellan |

Psst. Nik Wallenda has a secret he wants to share. The record-setting daredevil, who has thrilled millions with his white-knuckle treks across the Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, and – wait for it – an active volcano, found himself at a crossroads after an eight-person pyramid collapse injured five, including his sister, who ended up in a coma and had 73 screws and plates inserted into her face. Wallenda, who was anchoring that pyramid under the Circus Sarasota Big Top that winter afternoon in 2017, clung to the wire for dear life when the team’s practice stunt when horribly wrong. While he walked away without a scratch and stepped back onto the wire the next day, Wallenda wasn’t as unfazed by the accident as it seemed on the surface.


“I was battling fear,” says Wallenda, who dives deep into the traumatic event in his new book, ‘Facing Fear: Step Out in Faith and Rise Above What’s Holding You Back’ (Sept. 15/HarperCollins). “We were attempting to break a world record for the highest four-level, eight-person pyramid. After training for six weeks we brought it up to 30 feet above the ground. We were days before attempting it in front of a live audience and in front of Guinness, and then the collapse happened. I got back on the wire the next day, and performed for the next six weeks as if nothing were wrong. But then, when that contract ended, I had six weeks where I wasn’t performing. That’s when I realized that there was something different about me. I started experiencing fear. It was an entirely new emotion to me, and it became debilitating, to the point where I told my wife I was done.”

For Wallenda – a seventh-generation member of The Flying Wallendas family of aerialists – this was not only a stunning admission, but the first step in his journey to overcome fear and resume the death-defying feats that have captivated imaginations around the globe. And if you’re wondering whether Wallenda is fully healed, you need look no further than his March 4, 2020, walk across the heat-generating, gas-spewing Masaya Volcano in Nicaragua. Crossing the volcano’s active lava lake, Wallenda offered proof positive that he’s on top of his game.

“That walk was challenging in so many different ways,” he says. “Pulling it off wouldn’t have been possible if I hadn’t gone through the process of facing my fear and silencing the shame that came along with it. From that point I was able to work through my fear and resurrect my dreams of being a world-class aerialist.”

A holder of 11 Guinness World Records, Wallenda has more than lived up to the legacy created by his great-grandfather Karl, who brought the family to the United States in the 1920s and immediately started thrilling young and old alike.

Nik Wallenda – Photo Courtesy Rogers & Cowan PMK

“I’m very proud of our family’s place in history,” Wallenda says, “and I’m proud to do my part to carry on the tradition, even though my mom and dad tried to push me away from the industry. They didn’t want me to carry it on because of the struggles of the circus world. My great-grandfather said it best in the 1970s: ‘In this business, one day you eat the chicken. The next day you eat the feathers.’ I totally get that now. This is a very fickle, very feast-or-famine business.”

Crossing Niagara Falls into Canada on June 12, 2012, Wallenda made history of his own: Enigma Research estimates that one billion people had either seen or knew of Wallenda’s Niagara Falls walk. The event was ABC’s highest rated Friday night program since November 2007, and the highest non-sports summertime program on any of the major networks in six years. A year later, Wallenda upped the ante with a riveting walk across the Grand Canyon, completing the 1,400 foot walk in 22 minutes, 54 seconds, using a 2-inch-thick steel cable.

Nik Wallenda crosses the Grand Canyon
Tiffany Brown/Associated Press Images for Discovery Communications

Wallenda has built quite the resumé by defying convention. He’s crossed the Chicago and New York City skylines on a high-wire; he’s hung from his teeth 250 feet above the ground as part of a helicopter stunt in Branson, Missouri; and he’s crossed between the two towers of the ten-story Condado Plaza Hotel in San Juan, Puerto Rico, recreating the very act that had killed his great-grandfather Karl Wallenda in 1978. None of it possible without a healthy approach to managing his fear.

“I’m human, just like everyone else,” he says. “Fear is something we all have to overcome. I hope this book helps others take what I’ve learned and apply it to their everyday lives.”

The Wallenda name is synonymous with thrill seeking. We’re talking hundreds of years!

My family started performing in the 1780s in Bohemia, eventually making their way to Europe and into Germany, and then on into the United States in the 1920s. We’ve been at it for quite a long time, that’s for sure!


How did your family end up in the U.S.?

In 1927 they performed in Havana, Cuba. John Ringling, who was based in Florida, heard of this amazing high-wire troupe that he had to go see with his own eyes. So, he got on a ship and went over to Cuba to watch the show that my family was headlining. When the show’s owner caught wind that John Ringling was in the crowd, he went to my great-grandfather and said, “You guys have the night off tonight.” This didn’t make sense, especially since it was a packed house and everybody was there to see them. Long story short, the show’s owner knew that John Ringling would like what he saw, and that he would immediately poach my family and bring them to the United States. Well, John Ringling was a smart man, and he knew that there was a reason my family was pulled from the show. I’m sure it had happened to him many times before during his lifetime. So he sneaked back in the following day, saw my family perform, and immediately signed them as part of the “The Greatest Show on Earth” with Ringling Brothers. The next year, in 1928, they made their way to the United States, and my family headlined at Ringling Brothers for about 17 years.

Karl Wallenda

Was that when the press starting calling your family The Flying Wallendas?

It was around the time that my great-grandfather went out on his own, opening his own show in the 1940s. In 1947 he created the famous seven-person pyramid, and performed that until about 1962. That’s when they had that tragic accident in Detroit, Michigan. A couple of my family members were killed, and an uncle was paralyzed from the waist down. My great-grandfather sneaked out of the hospital the next day against the doctor’s orders, just to get back on the wire. It was an example of him living by the family legacy, and the now famous words, “The show must go on.” That’s something I still believe in, although I use the words “Never give up.” In fact, that’s how I sign every autograph.


Your great-grandfather was the legendary Karl Wallenda. He was about as fearless as they come.

Yes, he was fearless in many ways. He went on to create these amazing pyramids performed all over the world, and he walked the wire into his 70s. He walked across Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia with 30,000 people looking on, open-mouthed, and he walked it in places like Tallulah Gorge, Georgia, on a wire 1,000 feet across and 750 feet above the ground. He was 65 at the time, and his wife handed him a martini when he reached the other side – but not before he’d stopping midway to do a couple of handstands, one in honor of our soldiers in Vietnam, and another for laughs, so he was definitely a showman with a flair for the dramatic.

My great-grandfather eventually made his way to San Juan, Puerto Rico, where my family was headlining on a show that wasn’t selling many tickets. He decided to do a walk between two skyscrapers at the Condado Plaza Hotel to help promote show. He was 73 years old at the time. He got on that wire unaware that it had been rigged unstable; the guys who rigged it weren’t part of his normal team that included my uncle, who was performing elsewhere, and my father, who was home because my mother had just suffered a miscarriage. Long story short, because of the high winds and the improperly secured wire, he lost his balance, fell, and lost his life. That was in 1978, Less than a year later I was born, and that was the legacy that I inherited.

Nik Wallenda – Photo Courtesy Nik Wallenda

Karl Wallenda’s best friend was none other than Evel Knievel.

Yes, they were very close friends. They both shared the same passion for entertainment, and also for pushing the limits. It’s just like me being friends with David Blaine, Chris Angel, and many of the other daredevils today. I think because there’s not a lot of us, and because we are all part of the same small community, that a natural closeness develops. It was the same with my great-grandfather. He and Evel Knievel spent a lot of time together during their lifetimes. They respected each other a great deal. In fact, when Evel Knievel attempted his big jump in that rocket over the Snake River Canyon, he recruited my family to open for him. If you look at the ticket stubs you’ll see the Wallenda name right there. So they were close. They performed a lot and spent quite a bit of time together.


When did you start walking the wire?

My mom was six months pregnant with me and still walking on the wire, so I’ve been walking on a wire longer than my feet have been on terra firma [laughs]. As soon as I could stand up, they had me on a wire a couple of feet off the ground. Not on my own, obviously; my mom or my dad would grab my hand and sort of walk me back and forth. I have photos of me walking on a wire at 18 months old. My great-grandfather really said it best in the book that he wrote in the 1970s. He said, “Life is on the wire, and everything else is just waiting.” That is very true. For my family it is a very literal expression, but the reality of the situation is that everybody is on a wire. That’s one of the reasons that I wrote this book, because everybody is on a wire and everybody’s trying to get to the other side. My family just does it in a literal sense: Even though there are gases in the volcano, or heavy winds in the Grand Canyon, or heavy mists at Niagara Falls, we are still going to face our fears and make it across to the other side.

Nik Wallenda

In 2013 you performed that heart-stopping wire walk over the Grand Canyon with millions watching on TV.

Very early on, it was a dream of mine to walk across the Grand Canyon. In fact, I was making plans to walk across the Grand Canyon well before I sought permission to cross Niagara Falls. It was a long and tedious process of just figuring out where in the canyon I could walk. And then there was the engineering involved, which was just as much of a challenge as actually getting on that wire and walking it.


How did you train for that walk?

I trained with wind machines creating gusts of up to 90 mph. We knew that the winds were not going to exceed 50 mph, so training at 90 mph really helped me prepare both physically and mentally. I did have to endure a couple of 43-mph gusts while I was out there the day of the walk, so it did get fairly windy. What I learned from walking the Grand Canyon is that you can never train enough. I remember being out in the middle of the canyon and thinking that, even though I’d trained in 90-mph winds, I wish I had trained at 120-mph winds. When you’re in the real setting, you’re much better of mentally, emotionally, and physically if your preparation has gone above and beyond. Thankfully everything worked out. The result was a dream come true. It was an extremely successful TV special. In fact, my Grand Canyon walk still remains the highest-rated special in the history of the Discovery Channel, which is the largest network in the world. It was a huge success, and it opened a lot of doors.

Nik Wallenda speaks at a press conference in Chicago after successfully walking the wire across the Chicago River, Sunday November 2, 2014.
Jessica Koscielniak / Sun-Times, File

How do you cross the Grand Canyon on a wire, with no harness, and keep calm?

A lot of it is the power of our mind – where we allow our mind to go, and what energy we give our thoughts. I am a believer, so I give all of my thoughts to God. There are so many times in life where my mind will want to go to a negative spot. The Grand Canyon is a perfect example. When I got hit with those 43-mph winds, my mind naturally wanted to freak out. I was then able to counter that negative thought with the fact that I had trained and prepared for that moment. Everything was going to be okay. I’d practiced walking in 90-mph wind gusts. I’m going to be okay. So I sort of talked myself down, and before you know it, my heartrate dropped down to a normal level.


Your new book is titled Facing Fear.

In some ways, I guess I never realized what fear was because I was raised to be fearless. The reason I wrote the book was because of that 2017 eight-person pyramid fall while training in Sarasota, and the fear that I experienced after that. The book talks in depth about the process that I went through to overcome fear after that terrible accident.


How do you deal with fear after something like that pyramid collapse?

After that accident, I started to experience fear to the point where it became debilitating. I actually thought I was done walking the wire. I remember that crucial conversation with my wife, where she said, “Look, I support you, but the family lives by the words ‘the show must go on.’ You do what you do to inspire people. I think you may need to dig a little deeper.” Well, that really set me off on a faith journey, one that was about finding out who I was, and then realizing that, yes, fear was a part of it, and that the seed had been planted during that accident. Reality of what happened that day hit me – I’d almost lost my sister. She was torn up and in a coma, and had 73 screws and plates in her face alone. And even though I got back on that wire the next day, I came to the realization that I was avoiding a very essential fact: Despite what I might have looked like on the outside, I was running from fear rather than dealing with it.

Acrobat siblings Nik and Lijana Wallenda prepare to attempt a highwire stunt in the middle of Times Square in New York City.

Is it fair to say that you were in denial of that fear?

That’s very true. My pastor recommended seeing this amazing Christian psychologist in town. After spending an hour with her I remember saying, “I’m fine. I got back on the wire right away. I don’t need to talk to anybody.” She challenged me and said, “You’ve got to deal with it. You have to learn about your fear, but before you can do that you’ve got to acknowledge that the fear is real in your life. And then once you do that, then you can deal with the shame.” And I think that’s when it hit me. I was ashamed of the fact that here I was, Nik Wallenda – entertainer, daredevil, risk taker – and I’m supposed to be fearless…but I’m really not. I’m human. I’m real. I experience fear like anyone else. I had to work through all of those steps in order to work my way to that shame. Only then was I able to face the fear, deal with the fear, and then overcome that fear.

The book applies to my personal struggle with fear, but it is really written for people who are dealing with fear in their everyday lives. For example, I talk to people all the time who are miserable every day when they go to work. They do it because there is a paycheck on Friday and it covers the mortgage, but they really have dreams of a different occupation. Fear is preventing them from pursuing their dreams. What happens as a result? They prefer the status quo. They settle. I wrote this book because I wanted to inspire them. “Yes, you’re in a job that you don’t like. You have to be smart – you don’t want to walk away from your job without a plan, but you can take action and prepare for the job you really want.” My hopes are that people reading this book will use the lessons that I had to go through and apply it to real world situations in their own lives. If so, then they might not have to go as deep down in the valley as I did before reaching the mountaintop.


You mentioned preparation. That seems to be a key ingredient to conquering fear.

The amount of preparation that goes into what I do is incredible. Just to give you an example, my latest TV special was on ABC, where I walked over an active volcano – the Masaya Volcano, near Managua, Nicaragua. We studied volcanoes for four years as a team just to prepare for this event. We wanted to know the effects not only on the equipment, but also on the individuals who would be closest to volcano. We also worked with many volcanologists to understand this unpredictable environment as best we could, and then developed a training regimen based upon that science.


How do you train to walk across an active volcano?

We knew that I was going to have to wear a gas mask for this walk, and the science told us that wearing a gas mask would deprive my brain of oxygen. Actually, a gas mask can drop your oxygen level anywhere between 15-to-30%. So I trained on a wire that was the same length as what I would walk over the volcano, and I wore an oxygen deprivation mask that would cut my oxygen levels all the way down to 30%. That way, I was only breathing 30% oxygen during my practice walks. The logic being, if I could perform a walk with my oxygen level that low, then performing the walk at 70% oxygen was going to much easier.

The gases were a challenge in other ways. In fact, the gases were much stronger than anyone anticipated, including my team that had done all of the studies. There was a high degree of variability with this environment. We installed safety cables in that volcano crater that lasted two months before failure, and then we had some that started failing after 10 days. That’s because conditions inside a volcano change almost daily. Gas levels can be thicker from one day to the next, from one week to the next, so it was hard to predict what window we were going to be in. I not only trained with goggles to protect my eyes from the sulfuric gases, but I trained with goggles that were fogged up on purpose, so that I literally could not see through them. I wore special suits designed to keep me hot, so that my body would be prepared for the heat. I walked with weighted vests and also with the extra weight of an oxygen tank, in case the gases got so bad and that I needed oxygen. I walked the wire like this forwards and backwards, sometimes six times per training session. Oftentimes I’d practice with all of this gear on, walking a mile-and-a-half without stopping. That way I could prepare for those worst cases, so that when I am faced with them I’ve already been in much more difficult situations. It’s similar to somebody who is about to speak in front of a large group. The more you practice, the more comfortable you get. And the more comfortable you get, the better the chances of delivering a better message.

Mr. T(L) and Nik Wallenda attend Mr. T And Nik Wallenda Celebrate National Amazing Month.

Does this training also help your concentration?

Yes, absolutely. A lot of training is about not being distracted. That was especially true for my walk over Times Square. There’s no greater distraction than all of those giant LED screens, people, taxis, and noise that you have going on in Times Square. So yeah, concentration is a huge part of it – training to not be distracted, and to stay focused. To be honest with you, I have a little bit of ADHD. My mind is everywhere sometimes. But when I’m on the wire, that’s the one place where I feel like I can stay extremely focused.


Let’s talk Niagara Falls. More than a hundred thousand in attendance, and millions watching on TV.

Niagara Falls took changing 100-year-old laws in two countries in order to get permission to walk over, so just the political part of that event was an overwhelming, monumental task. Then there was the training and the actual walk itself, followed by the network coming in last-minute and ordering me to wear a tether. That was something that I’d never done before. It’s like telling Tiger Woods that he’s got to use a specially weighted golf club instead of his trusty driver just before he tees off in a major. It’s going to throw him off because it’s different. It’s unique. And here I was, risking my life while people watching thought that the tether was going to save me. While that is true in in the purest sense, the reality is that a tether presented a risk as well. A tether could have caused me to fall. I could have gotten tangled up in it. The reality is, I’d trained for this walk without a safety. It was an extremely uncomfortable change, especially in a situation where I had never done it before and didn’t get to train with it on. But the network made the decision 10 days before the walk, and they were determined that I had to wear it. It was nonnegotiable.

Nik Wallenda edges his way along the tightrope above Niagara Falls (Image: Reuters)

What was the diameter of the wire you walked on?

I walked on a cable that was 2-inches in diameter, which was also different for me. My entire life, I had walked on a 5/8-inch wire rope, which is what I’m comfortable with to be honest with you. If someone came to me and said, “Do you want a 3-inch wire rope, 2-inch wire rope, or a 1-inch wire rope?” I would choose a 5/8-inch roped every time. It’s much smaller, obviously, but it’s where I feel at home.


What role does creativity play in preparing to walk something like Niagara Falls?

Creativity is a huge element. We actually brought in airboats to create strong winds, as well as fire trucks to simulate the heavy mist created by Niagara Falls. It’s really hard to simulate real world settings, but I have a great team of engineers and family members that are extremely creative.

A lot of my walks are creative in the sense that we are doing things never done before. There were many, many unique challenges like that when it came to walking over Niagara Falls. For example, we had these pendulum-type weights installed to keep the wire from twisting. What we learned at Niagara Falls, we took with us to help make the Grand Canyon walk a little bit safer. Then we took what we learned from the Grand Canyon experience and applied it to the volcano walk. So, we’re always learning, always pushing, and always being creative in our work.

Lijana Wallenda and Nik Wallenda walk a high wire over Times Square during the Highwire Live In Times Square With Nik Wallenda on June 23, 2019, in New York City.
Eugene Gologursky/Getty Images for Dick Clark Productions

Your faith is an important part of your identity. When you walked the Grand Canyon, you could be heard trusting each step to Jesus. How you use your faith to inspire and motivate others?

My faith is just like my wire walking. It’s who I am. I gave my life to Christ at three years old, so it’s really all I’ve ever known. I’m not preaching when I’m out there on the wire. When I’m on TV, I’m living my life. I think that’s why mainstream media respects it so much. There are no demands on our part to have the microphones on while I’m walking that wire. The networks could turn it off if they want, but they choose instead to keep it on. I think people respect that I’m not out there trying to change someone’s life or belief system. It’s just me being real, and that is what helps keep me calm. People are awestricken by the fact that I can stay that calm in those settings, but the Bible talks about a peace that passes all understanding. That is where I get my peace. If people’s lives are encouraged, inspired, or brought the faith because of that, then that’s me fulfilling my calling. Otherwise I just live my life by example, which is what the Bible calls us to do – to be Christlike. I don’t always succeed, but I try.


What have you been doing to stay relevant during the COVID-19 pandemic?

We opened up the drive-in thrill show, which has been a huge success. We’ve played a month now in two different cities, and have basically invited a bunch of my daredevil friends to perform with me. This is something we normally can’t do, because everyone is always booked up and performing elsewhere, but coronavirus changed all of that. So I called everyone up and said, “Hey let’s all get together and put on this awesome show.” People can drive onto a lot in their car, and the action takes place high above the ground. You can watch from the inside of your car, or the front of your car, and you can tune in to our radio station and see a great show. I speak from the wire for about 20 minutes, and use that time to hopefully motivate and encourage people during these crazy times.

PASADENA, CALIFORNIA – JANUARY 08: Nik Wallenda (L) and Erendira Wallenda attend ABC Television’s Winter Press Tour 2020 held at The Langham Huntington, Pasadena on January 08, 2020 in Pasadena, California.
(Photo by Michael Tran/FilmMagic)

Final Question:  If you could offer one piece of advice to inspire and motivate others, what would that be?

I would tell you that God has blessed us all with powerful minds. We have the ability to control what we allow into our minds, and also what we allow out. We have the power to filter out the negative thoughts and replace these with positives. If I am on the wire and get hit with 43-mph winds, I can immediately counter that with the thought that I trained in 90. It is definitely something that you have to practice. Fear can overtake us. Fear can debilitate us. Or, if we learn to face our fear, it can empower us.

Written By:  Michael D. McClellan |  

He is born to run, and for 16 seasons John Havlicek is an unyielding force of perpetual motion for the Boston Celtics, breaking down defenders and NBA records alike, winning eight NBA championships, first as Sixth Man extraordinaire, and then as an All-Star standout in the waning years of the Russell Dynasty, and finally as an All-NBA First Team selection, NBA Finals Most Valuable Player, and key protagonist in the NBA’s Greatest Game Ever Played. Havlicek, or “Hondo” to legions of adoring fans, will be forever immortalized by the most famous radio call in basketball history, but the most lasting image is that of an indefatigable small forward who, years before Boston Marathoner Bill Rodgers conjures legions of road racers, unbidden, out of the invisible fabric of the universe, runs an aging Oscar Robertson ragged on the way to the 1974 NBA Championship.

Havlicek’s story begins in Martins Ferry, Ohio, a small town on the West Virginia border. The son of Czechoslovakian immigrants becomes a three-sport star at Bridgeport High School, earning All-State honors in football, baseball, and basketball. Havlicek receives dozens of basketball scholarship offers. He chooses Ohio State, where he plays for the legendary Fred Taylor and teams with collegiate stars Jerry Lucas and Larry Siegfried, as well as with future coaching legend Bobby Knight. Havlicek’s time in Columbus is a fairy tale, as the Buckeyes roll to a 78–6 record over a three-season span and win the 1960 national championship.

Featuring six players drafted by the NBA, two future Hall of Famers in Lucas and Havlicek, and Knight, who goes on to become the winningest basketball coach in NCAA history, the Buckeyes lead the nation by averaging 90.4 points en route to the 1960 championship over California.

Ohio State reaches the title game the next two years, losing to Cincinnati in ’61 and ’62. Havlicek is selected by the Celtics in the first round of the 1962 NBA Draft. Boston, fresh off its fourth title in five seasons, is loaded with great players. It allows Havlicek time to assimilate. The unproven rookie finds his niche by bringing relentless energy to the court.

“Red loved defensive players,” Havlicek says. “At Ohio State, my role was to play hard-nosed defense. In Boston, I started out playing five minutes a game early in the season. My minutes increased as Red gained more confidence in me. I ended the year averaging 20 minutes per game, which was fourth best in the league for rookies.”

The Celtics capture their sixth NBA Championship, and Havlicek earns a spot on the All-Rookie Team. He puts in work during the summer, and then leads the team in scoring during the 1963–64 regular season. The Celtics, meanwhile, continue to roll, winning 59 games and easily defeating the San Francisco in the 1964 NBA Finals.

Havlicek’s signature moment comes during the 1965 Eastern Division Finals when the Celtics, winners of six consecutive NBA Championships, suddenly find themselves on the brink of elimination. Battling Chamberlain and the Philadelphia 76ers, and clinging to a 110–109 Game 7 lead, Bill Russell’s inbound pass hits the guide wire supporting the basket with less than five seconds left. Havlicek’s ensuing steal of Hal Greer’s inbound pass – arguably the most famous theft in NBA history – keeps the championship streak intact and sends the Celtics to the Finals. Fans all over New England hang on the words of Celtics radio broadcaster Johnny Most, whose call instantly becomes part of Celtics lore: “Havlicek steals it. Over to Sam Jones. Havlicek stole the ball! It’s all over! Johnny Havlicek stole the ball!”

Havlicek continues to reprise his role of Sixth Man through the end of the Bill Russell Era, winning championships in 1965, 1966, 1968, and 1969. With Russell’s retirement in ’69, Havlicek is not only starting for the first time in his professional career, but he’s also the unquestioned leader of the next generation of Boston Celtics. New head coach Tom Heinsohn installs an up-tempo offense, and Havlicek responds with the best statistical season of his career: 24 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 6.8 assists. But after winning six championships during the Sixties, the new-look Celtics are suddenly NBA bottom feeders.

It doesn’t take long for the Celtics to bounce back. With Cowens, White, and Havlicek forming the nucleus of a revamped roster, the 1972–73 Boston Celtics post the best regular season record in team history, going 68–14 and looking like a slam dunk to win the NBA Championship. All of that changes when Havlicek injures his shoulder during the Eastern Conference Finals against New York, allowing the Knicks to take the series in seven games. The loss puts the Celtics at a crossroads, but Boston rebounds the following season by winning 56 regular season games and saving their best effort for the playoffs. After dispatching the Buffalo Braves in the first round, Boston exacts revenge by beating the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals, 4–1.

Awaiting them are the Milwaukee Bucks, led by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Oscar Robertson. The series goes seven games, with neither team able to protect home court advantage. With the Celtics up 3–2 and returning to the Boston Garden, everyone in New England prepares to celebrate the team’s 12th championship banner and its first without Russell.

“Game 6 in the Garden,” Havlicek recalls. “We wanted to win the championship in front of our fans, and the Bucks wanted to have the same opportunity in Game 7 back in Milwaukee.”

Facing a do-or-die situation, the Bucks’ season comes down to one shot. Abdul-Jabbar’s baseline skyhook at the buzzer sends the Celtics back to Milwaukee for Game 7. Robertson plays 46 minutes on dead legs. Boston wins easily, 102–87, securing the team’s first championship of the post-Russell era.

The Celtics fail to repeat, falling to the Bullets in the ’75 Eastern Conference Finals, prompting Auerbach to trade Westphal for Scott. The transaction is made to counter Rick Barry’s Golden State Warriors, who sweep Washington in the Finals.

“Red wanted more backcourt speed,” Havlicek says. “Charlie was one of the fastest players in the league.”

On October 24, the Celtics open the season by running past the Houston Rockets, 109–94. Havlicek leads the way with 24, the first step in a journey that culminates with a championship over the Phoenix Suns. The ’76 Finals is best remembered for that triple-overtime classic in the old Boston Garden.

“I hit that running bank shot with two seconds left on the clock in double-overtime, and the Garden went crazy,” Havlicek says. “The crowd immediately stormed the floor, and we headed to the locker room thinking that we’d won the game. The refs put one second back on the clock, and pandemonium breaks out. The scorer’s tables were toppled over. Richie Powers—a referee—got into a fight with a fan. Then Gar Heard hits that long, turnaround jumper to put the game into triple-overtime. We were able to win it and then go to Phoenix and close it out.”

That 1976 title is the last time Havlicek walks off the court a champion. Havlicek retires in 1978, his 38-year-old body worn down from 16 seasons of NBA pounding. That the Celtics are in disarray doesn’t help; Havlicek, who plays the game at the highest standard, can’t stomach the new breed of selfish players like Curtis Rowe, who emerges from the shower after a humiliating 30-point defeat to announce, “What’s everybody upset about? The Ws and Ls don’t show up on the paychecks.” Ironic then that Havlicek—the Celtics’ unstoppable running man, and one of the best-conditioned ballers on the planet—simply decides he’s had enough and walks away.

“It was time,” he says, and then, without a hint of irony: “It didn’t end the way that I’d hoped, but it was a good run.”

You won a national championship while playing alongside four future NBA players:  Jerry Lucas, Larry Siegfried, Joe Roberts and Mel Nowell.  How were you able to put individual agendas aside and win it all?

We had a great head coach in Fred Taylor, and we played for a program that was known for its winning tradition.  Our team chemistry really fed off of those two things.  Red was able to accomplish this in Boston, while Fred created that same time of atmosphere at Ohio State.  Red had a theory that it’s not what statistics you have that measures your value to the team.  Everyone wants to score 25 or 30 points a game and grab 15 or 20 rebounds.  But you have to work together to be successful.  You have to make sacrifices in your game in order to make the team stronger.  That’s the same type of philosophy that Fred adhered to at Ohio State.  Sacrifice for the good of the team.  Put egos and agendas aside and do what’s necessary to be successful as a team.  And with a strong leader like Fred, it was easy for us to play as a cohesive unit.  So really, all of the credit goes to Fred for getting us to buy into that philosophy.


Looking back now, what do you remember most about winning the national championship against California?

Two days before the championship game I injured myself in the bathroom at Ohio State.  I cut myself on a paper towel dispenser, and I ended up with 10 stitches on the ends of my fingers on my shooting hands.  I remember being concerned about the injury and how it would affect my play in the game.  The other thing I remember was how good we shot the ball in the first half – I believe we only missed four shots and were up big at halftime.  We played extremely well in that game.  We were a sophomore dominated group, and many people didn’t think we would go very far that season, let alone reach the title game and then win big.


That 1960 championship team was also known for its academics.

The unusual thing about our team was that we were true student-athletes.  Everyone graduated.  We had seven guys get masters degrees.  Two received Ph. Ds and two received MDs.  There was one quarter during the school year that our team GPA was a 3.4.  That’s really hard to believe, but true, and I’ll bet that’s an NCAA record.  We considered ourselves students first and foremost, and we took a lot of pride in our accomplishments in the classroom.  And to a large degree, Fred [Taylor] was the architect of our academic success.  Fred told me when he was recruiting me that I was here for an education, and that was going to be number one on my list of priorities.  Number two was basketball.  Number three was a social life.  And after the first two, we all knew that there was not going to be much of a social life [laughs].


Please tell me a little about your coach at Ohio State, the legendary Fred Taylor.

Well, I don’t think I would have gotten anywhere without his tutelage. He shaped me tremendously, and I feel that he was the person most responsible for preparing me to play professional basketball.  He stressed the fundamentals, and he stressed defense.  Those were the things helped get me into the NBA, and those were the things that kept me there for all of those years.  The foundation of my professional basketball career was truly based on what I learned from Fred Taylor.


Coaching great Bob Knight was a teammate on that national championship team.  What kind of player was Coach Knight?

Let’s just say that Bobby wasn’t the quickest man on foot [laughs], but defensively he played hard.  When you got fouled by Bobby, you knew you had been fouled.  He definitely got his money’s worth [laughs].  Bobby played a reserve role and came off the bench quite a bit.  He was a shooter, but his calling card was defense.  If he’d been allowed to play more minutes he would have just fouled out, he was that aggressive [laughs].


Let’s talk Olympic basketball.  Many people were shocked when you failed to make the 1960 Olympic basketball team.  What happened?

That was probably the biggest disappointment of my athletic career.  I thought I played extremely well during the Olympic trials, and I felt that I deserved to be selected to play on that team.  The same argument could be made for my teammate, Larry Siegfried.  In my mind, he played well enough to be chosen for that team.  The system was a lot different back then.  The AAU and NCAA were feuding at the time, and it really became a big political thing after the first team was selected.


You were selected by the Celtics in the first round of the 1962 NBA Draft.  Boston had just won its fourth title in five seasons.

I was lucky to be drafted by the Celtics, no question about that.  I remember that when I learned that I was drafted by the Celtics, Bob Knight said that that was the greatest thing that could have happened to me because the Celtics played my style of basketball.  And like you just mentioned, I wasn’t forced to come in and be a savior or anything like that, because they had a lot of hall of fame players on that team.  You did have a Bill Russell, a Cooz, a Sharman, a Sam Jones.  You also had Heinsohn and KC [Jones].  You had Frank Ramsey.  It made my transition a lot smoother than had I been drafted to play elsewhere.  I was able to ease in.  I just sort of became a part of that process, where they were using me a little bit here and there, and whatever, and over time it evolved into a bigger and better leadership role for me.


What was it like adjusting to the pro game?

I think the people that you involve yourself with, and who help you along the way, these people all play a part in some sort of design or pattern in what you’re going to become.  The same was true with me when I joined the Celtics.  Looking back at when I was drafted, in my wildest dreams I didn’t think I’d be able to do what I did during my career with the Celtics.  I was able to learn from other people on that team, and you learn from winners like Bill Russell and KC and Sam and Cooz and Ramsey.


Hall of Famer Frank Ramsey was the team’s original Sixth Man.  Now here you come, competing for his job.  How did he handle that?

When I came to Boston, Ramsey could have felt threatened and could have made life hard on me, but he didn’t.  He was the opposite of that.  He said, ‘I’m so glad you’re here because you’re going to add two years to my life, because I can’t do it as much as I used to and I’m hoping you’ll step in and help me.’  That was totally different experience from what I expected as a rookie, because when you go to training camp everyone is working to protect their job.  They don’t want to see some guy come in and knock them off the team or take away their minutes.  It was totally different with the Celtics.  It was a secure team, and we embraced each other, and it was a great marriage.


As a rookie, how did you find your niche on team loaded with stars?

Well, one of the things that I knew about Red Auerbach was that he loved defensive players.  He understood that defense was what meant the difference between simply reaching the playoffs and winning a championship.  If you look at those early Celtics teams that he coached, they were very good on the offensive end but weren’t the best defensively.  All of that changed with Bill Russell.  When I arrived I knew that Tom Sanders, KC Jones, Russell and Sam Jones were all great defenders.  At Ohio State, that was basically my job – to be the defensive stopper.  So, I felt then and still feel today that the quickest way into the NBA is to play defense.  If you have NBA ability and can play defense you’ll have an opportunity to succeed, because great defenders are never a liability.  Offense is all about instinct, and with the great teams that I was on I had an opportunity to find my place on offense as well.  I had great hands, which really helped me, and I loved playing with Cousy that one year that we were together because the ball was going to be right where you needed it most of the time.  As I started out as a rookie I was playing maybe five minutes a game early in the season.  But as I gained more confidence, and as Auerbach gained more confidence in me, I ended the year with about twenty minutes per game, which was about fourth best in the league for rookies.  So, that’s how I fit in with the Celtics – I came in, played solid defense, and I worked hard on the offensive end to earn the trust of my coach and teammates.


Were you surprised to be selected by the Celtics?

No, not really.  It never hurts to be on a team that is successful, and I knew Red Auerbach often times would draft a person based on the type of program the person was involved with.  He was well aware of Ohio State’s program and the success that we’d enjoyed, and he knew the caliber of players we had on those teams.  He knew that we had won a national championship, and that we were competing for a championship every year.  So there were a lot of good things about me that he took into consideration based on the kind of program that I came from.  He knew that if I could contribute at a high level on such a successful team, he figured that I should be able to make the transition to the pros and be able to help the Celtics.


Your rookie season with the Celtics was also the final season for the incomparable Bob Cousy.  Even though you only played one season together, what were you able to learn from one of the greatest players in NBA history?

As a rookie, I quickly came to appreciate Cousy’s court vision.  I think that was the one thing that I learned from him, and I was able to develop it because Bob Cousy was such a visionary on the floor.  I think that you pick up a lot from your teammates. I was never a great ball handler or anything like that, but I tried to never lose sight of the ball at any time while I was on the basketball floor. The other thing is that I had a lot of movement to my game, a constant motion that really challenged defenders on a number of levels.  I was never standing around. And that creates a lot of opportunities.  Cousy always had the presence of mind to find me in situations where I was able to move and free myself for an open shot.  His court vision was unbelievable, and it helped me to see the court better – the passing lanes, the angles, things like that.  Those are the things that I took away from my rookie season with Bob Cousy.


You were such a great athlete that the Cleveland Browns also drafted you, intrigued by your potential as a wide receiver.  What was it like experimenting with a career in the NFL? 

I had decent speed, especially for that era, but it wasn’t great speed.  I believe I was timed at 4.6 in the 40-yard dash.  That’s slow by today’s standards.  Today you have plenty of defensive linemen who run faster than that.  But I could catch the ball.  I had really good hands.  That, and my height, were the things that really caught the Browns’ interest.


Please tell me a little about the Browns’ hall of fame head coach, the late Paul Brown. 

Interestingly enough, Paul Brown and I really liked each other.  I really appreciated  the way he ran things as a coach, the way everything was so precise.  He was very meticulous, very detail-oriented, which really matched who I was as a person, so Paul Brown was definitely my kind of coach.  I enjoyed my time in a Browns uniform, even though it became clear early on that football wasn’t my strong suit athletically – especially when compared to playing basketball.  Brown was very nice about it when he let me go.  He knew I had something to go to, that I had a future playing professional basketball.  So it really worked out best for everyone involved.


Were you really serious about playing football for the Browns? 

I was going to try and play both sports. But the good Lord has a way of playing a part in those types of decisions.  I think He made it pretty clear that I was cut out for basketball and not football.


You’ve mentioned the great Bill Russell, and what he meant to turning the Boston Celtics into world champions.  Please tell me what it was like to play with Russell.

There was no bigger winner, no better champion in basketball history, than my friend Bill Russell.  Russell was the kind of player who never concerned himself with personal goals – he put his team above all else, and in the process he made his teammates better players.  If you were a scorer, you were six-to-eight points better because Russell was around.  If you were a good defensive player you became a great defensive player, because with Russell hanging around you were able to do things that you weren’t ordinarily able to do.  You could take more chances, apply more pressure, knowing that Russell was back there protecting the basket. 

Obviously, playing with Russell for all of those years meant that you were going to be in the mix for a championship, and winning those titles were the most important things in my career.  Forget about the points, rebounds and assists or whatever, the championships are things that they can’t take away from you, and with Russell being involved, and being involved with him, you always knew that you had a chance.  And obviously, eleven championships in thirteen years is quite a remarkable feat, and that’s exactly what Russell accomplished during his career with the Celtics.  I was happy – and fortunate – to be on eight championships teams, six of them with Russell.


You followed Ramsey as the next great Sixth Man.

Coming off the bench never bothered me, because basketball is a team game.  It takes a total team effort, and it takes everyone buying into their role and playing it to the best of their ability.  The sixth man role is very important to a ball club – it was back then, and it is equally as important today.  I had confidence in my game, and I knew that I had the ability to start, which is something that evolved over time, but joining a team loaded with talent meant that I would have to wait my turn.  We had Tom Heinsohn, Satch Sanders, Frank Ramsey, Jim Loscutoff and Gene Guarilia.  All of these guys played the forward position, and all of them had the NBA experience that I lacked as a rookie.  So coming off the bench didn’t affect me in a negative way.  Like I said, I was confident in my ability to play the game of basketball.  Besides, one thing I learned from Red Auerbach was that it’s not who starts the game, but who finishes it, and I generally was around at the finish.


You were involved in one of the greatest plays in NBA history.  Take me back to that famous steal in the closing seconds of the 1965 NBA Eastern Conference Finals.

Well, it’s Game 7 against Wilt Chamberlain and the Philadelphia 76ers.  We’re up by a point with five seconds to play, 110-109, and we have possession of the basketball.  Bill Russell takes the ball out of bounds and hits the guide wire, and Philadelphia immediately regains possession.  At this point, everyone was concerned about the ruling because of the guide wire, but we quickly learned that Philadelphia was going to retain possession of the ball.

Red always said that you always needed to figure out some way to find an edge.  Some of the things he would come up with were just ridiculous [laughs], but he really drove that into us from the very beginning.  So, when I found myself on the court in that situation, I said to myself that the only thing that I could do to get a possible edge, is that when the ball is handed to Hal Greer, who was taking the ball out of bounds, I could actually try to time the pass and have a shot at deflecting or stealing the inbounds pass.  I knew that as soon as he was handed the ball that he had five seconds to put in in play.  So I counted.  One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three…

Most of the time the ball is delivered within the first three seconds.  But I get to one thousand four, and the ball hasn’t been inbounded yet.  So at that point you’re trying to keep visual contact with the man out of bounds with the ball, and with the person that you’re defending.  When I got to four a gave a little look, and it allowed me to see the play develop a little better.  Had I had my back to the ball, Hal Greer would have lobbed the ball right over my head.  But that little look allowed me to get a better perspective, and it convinced me that I could get a hand on this one.  And I got up in front of the ball, and momentarily controlled it before kicking it out to Sam Jones.


Bill Russell acted as player/coach of the Boston Celtics following Red Auerbach’s retirement in 1966.  Were you ever interested in coaching?

No, not really.  I knew very early on that I wouldn’t enjoy coaching, in large part because I was such a disciplined player.  I felt that I was a very coachable player because of that, but that isn’t always the case when it comes to the relationship between the coach and the players.  Oftentimes, players don’t get on the same page as the coach, and I would have found that frustrating.  I would have been very hard on myself.

The Celtics used to call me about coaching, but they pretty much knew what the answer was going to be, so they finally stopped calling.  Whenever the Celtics were changing coaches in the 70’s and 80’s, Red Auerbach would call and say, ‘Okay, for the record, do you want to coach?’  I’d always say, ‘No,’ and then he’d say, ‘Goodbye.’  I think Red knew that coaching wasn’t for me, but he wanted to extend the offer anyway.  It was a show of respect on his part.  The Celtics were a family, and for the most part he looked within the family when hiring his coaches.  Russell, Heinsohn, Satch Sanders, Dave Cowens, KC Jones.  Red hired his guys because he trusted them, and he knew that they were going to do their best to help the Celtics win another championship.


You had an up-close view of those great battles between Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain.  What stands out in your mind?

It wasn’t a matter of Wilt-versus-Russell with Bill. He would let Wilt score 50 if we won, and there were times when that was the case.  The most important things to Bill were championships, rings and winning.  He was never after the personal stats.  Wilt could raise the level of his game, he could do things that were eye-popping when you reviewed the box score, but he could never figure out how to make his teammates around him better.  Bill was always there to win the important possessions, to grab the key rebounds, to make the key blocks, to trigger a key fast breaks.  He played a completely different game than Wilt.  It was a mental game, a psychological game.  And it was a big weapon whenever Bill went up against Wilt, because in Wilt’s mind, Bill already had Wilt’s number.  The battle was already won before it ever started.  Wilt would never admit it, but Bill knew he was in Wilt’s head.  And he used that to his advantage.


What makes the Lakers-Celtics rivalry so special? 

Well, it started in the 60s, with all of those great battles in the Finals.  Jerry West and all of those guys going up against Bill Russell, Sam Jones and the rest of us.  And then you had the Bird-Magic rivalry that increased the intensity to a completely different pitch, because you had two great players who basically saved the league from irrelevance and also took it to a new height.  In the nineties you had the Dream Team, with Larry and Magic on the same team, and that added something to it.  And then you had a renewal of the rivalry with Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant going at each other in the Finals.  You had Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen going for their first title.  You had Paul injuring his knee in that first game, only to come back and win the MVP award while leading the Celtics back to the title.

Today everything has gotten so big.  There is some much media coverage, in so many forms.  Newspaper, radio, television, the Internet.  Those things all help fuel the fire when it comes to great rivalries.  I don’t even think there were people who traveled with us when we won some of those early championships [laughs].


The continuity of those great Celtics teams is truly remarkable. 

The Celtics always had an older, more experienced person to pass along the team philosophy.  Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman were a great backcourt tandem, and they passed that along to KC and Sam [Jones].  Frank Ramsey passed the Sixth Man role to me.   Russell retires, and along comes Cowens.  It’s just the way we did things, and it was a big part of our success.

With Red, he was very loyal to his players.  The first eight or nine years of my career we never even made a trade.  We picked people up off of waivers, but Red had this ability to see a player, and see the talent that he had, and basically mold that individuals talent into a team effort.  It wasn’t who scored the most points, or who did this or that.  He always said it was about your value to the team.  And everyone had a certain value.  As I mentioned before, Tom Sanders and KC Jones were great defensive players.  Of course there’s no one like Bill Russell.  He was the guy who made the Celtics great.


During your Celtics career you played for Red Auerbach, Bill Russell and Tom Heinsohn.  What did these men have in common, and how were they different?

Red Auerbach was a person who was able to motivate people, and I think that this was probably his strongest asset.  Red had a situation where he could yell at people a little bit and get away with it.  He was intense.  What made him so smart was that he knew which players he could yell at and which ones he shouldn’t.  He yelled at Tommy quite a bit, but you didn’t see him doing those types of things to Bob Cousy.

With Russ, I knew that we were going to have basically the same system, and also pretty much have the same core group of players.  I think Russ’s biggest adjustment as coach came with cutting players in training camp, because cutting players was something that he really didn’t like to do.

Tommy was totally different that Red and Russ – he was far more relational with his players.  When I was a player, Tommy and I were roommates, and we used to call him the social director because he knew where all of the good restaurants and movie houses were at the time.  Didn’t matter what city, Tommy always had those types of things figured out.  Suddenly I find him as my coach, and all of a sudden all of these things have restrictions and limits to them [laughs].  But Tommy was the right man for the job of rebuilding the Celtics after Russ and Sam Jones retired.  I think he was more patient than Russ or Red would have been, which was crucial since he inherited such a young club.


You won six championships playing alongside Bill Russell, and following his retirement the Celtics were in a rebuilding mode.  How difficult a period was this for you?

Well, it was really quite difficult for me, and I was short-tempered a lot of the time.  During my first seven seasons we had veteran teams, and I was really the kid on those teams.  Suddenly everything was flip-flopped; I was the old man on a team loaded with young players.  When all of the rookies came in, I can recall the first exhibition game we played in 1970.  You had Dave Cowens, Jo Jo White, Don Chaney and Garfield Smith on the court with me.  The referee turns and looks at me, and asks if this is really the Boston Celtics on the floor [laughs].

Rookies and younger players are going to go out there and make mistakes, and that’s exactly what happened.  I tried my best to help them get over these rough spots, but I really had a hard time with it.  That’s why I don’t think I could have ever been a coach.


The 1972-73 Boston Celtics posted the best regular season record in team history, going 68-14 and looking like a slam dunk to win the NBA Championship.  All of that changed during the Eastern Conference Finals against the New York Knicks.  What happened?

I thought all year long that we would win the championship.  We won 68 games during the regular season, had the best record in the NBA, and heading into the playoffs I thought we were playing with tremendous confidence and momentum.  We won our first round series against the Atlanta Hawks, and really didn’t have much trouble in that series against them.  Three of our wins were blowouts.  Unfortunately, I separated my  shoulder during the series with the Knicks, and it became an issue.  The injury kept me out of a key game that we lost in double overtime. I thought that ’72-’73 was going to be our year, but the shoulder injury just devastated the whole thing.  Injuries are an important factor in any championship run.  You have to be fortunate not to lose players or have people laid up, because if you do then it is going to take something away from the team.  Suddenly you’re not as deep, the rotation is different, the combinations aren’t the same, the chemistry might not be what is was before the injury.  That’s what happened to us.  We didn’t have the same confidence, and everything was suddenly a lot more difficult.  Credit goes to the Knicks for beating us.  They capitalized on the injury and beat us in seven games.


By 1974 the rebuilding was complete – the Boston Celtics were world champions once again, defeating the Milwaukee Bucks in a thrilling seven game series.

That particular championship was probably the one I enjoyed the most, because it was probably the one that I played the best in.  I can recall that double-overtime game when Don Chaney deflected the ball and I ran down the court – there were fifteen seconds left on the clock, and Heinsohn was calling timeout.  Well, I shot the ball, followed the miss and put it back up and in the basket as time expired.  That sent the game into double-overtime.  I hit three shots in the period, we were up 99-98, but then Mickey Davis hits a big shot to take the lead.  We ran a play with time winding down, and I make a shot on the baseline to put us back up by one.  The Bucks responded by running a play for Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], and he hit that famous hook shoot along the baseline as time expired to beat us on our home floor.

Many people came up to my after the game and said that I didn’t look like the same person who started the game.  I can understand that, because I played 58 minutes, and it was a grueling experience.  But I was prepared to continue, and to play as long as it took to win that game.  Unfortunately we lost it, which meant that we had to travel to Milwaukee for Game 7.  We were determined to win that game, and that’s exactly what we did.  It was an unbelievable feeling.


That 1976 title would be your last, and the eighth time that you would walk off of the floor as an NBA champion.  Did winning ever get old for you?

Winning never gets old.  It only gets old if you lose, and that’s what made it so special to play for the Celtics.  The organization was committed to wining, and this started with [team founder and original owner] Walter Brown, and was reinforced daily by Red Auerbach.  Those two men created a winning atmosphere within the Celtics organization, and this made it easy for the players to put team success ahead of individual accomplishments.  If you look at any of those great championship teams, you’ll see players who could have easily put up big numbers on lesser teams elsewhere.  But we were interested in team goals.  Winning championships never got old to any of us.


Your career in Boston spanned two distinct eras – the Bill Russell Dynasty of the 1960s, and the Dave Cowens Era of the 1970s.  What was it like to be part of both periods in Boston Celtics history?

When you have the greatest defensive player in the history of basketball anchoring your team, everything is going to be predicated on defense.  Defensively, Russell revolutionized the game.  He could dominate without scoring a point.  You also had KC Jones on those teams, you had Satch Sanders.  Great defensive players.  But as we moved into the 70s, we shifted the emphasis from defense to offense. Again, Russell was the greatest defensive center the game has ever known.  Dave Cowens couldn’t come in and take the place of Russell, at least not by trying to imitate him.  Cowens had to play the game to his strengths.  He was a better shooter than Russell.  KC was a great defensive player.  Jo Jo White was a better shooter.  I was counted on more to carry the scoring burden on those later teams.  So we were much more offensively oriented during the 70s.  But make no mistake, those Russell teams could also score – as obvious as it sounds, you have to be able to outscore your opponent to win a game, and we won more than our share during the 60s.


Your conditioning and fitness levels were the stuff of legend.  Over the course of your career you ran countless defenders ragged trying to keep up with you.

Running was a very important part of my game, no question about it.  And I knew from the first time I played a basketball game that the toughest guy to score on was the guy who kept after me all the time, nose-to-nose, basket-to-basket, on every single possession.  So I stayed in motion, and I used the constant movement to my advantage.  I also knew that the opposite was also true. The toughest guy to defend against was the guy who kept running. The guy who never let up, never stopped moving, never let you relax. I knew that I could be successful doing those types of things, and that over the course of a game it would wear down the guy guarding me and open up valuable scoring opportunities late in the fourth quarter.  Those were the types of advantages that I wanted to have, especially in the close games.  If you were in better shape than the man guarding you, you could take advantage of the fatigue factor.   That’s the edge I wanted to have.


Final Question:  If you could offer one piece of advice on life to others, what would that be?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:  Never give up.  I had hundreds of shots blocked during my career, but I always focused on making the next shot.  You’ve got to take chances, and you can’t dwell on the negatives.