Interviews from the world of film and television!

(Photo Credit: Sarahi Canchola)

Written By: Michael D. McClellan | It turns out that Confucius got it right, and Kurt Patino is living proof. The Chinese philosopher, who once posited that if you choose a job you love, you’ll never have to work a day in your life, could have easily had Patino in mind when he dropped those pearls of wisdom on the world. Very few find their true calling. To spend time with Kurt Patino is to know that he is exactly where he should be, doing exactly what it is that he is meant to do. He loves actors. Smitten by their passion, courage, and creativity, Patino in many ways has followed the blueprint of the brilliant Bernie Brillstein, who earned his way into show business in the mail room at the William Morris Agency, and later founded The Brillstein Company, where he managed the careers of an array of stars. Patino, the founder and president of Patino Management Company, is laser focused on a small roster of successful actors who excel at their creative profession. The care and feeding of a select group of clients ensures that Patino has the bandwidth to help grow careers in a way that is unique in an industry overrun with half-truths and broken promises.

“My passion is developing all aspects of an actor’s career,” Patino says enthusiastically. “For me, it’s about doing the little things; helping an actor see the big picture, being there when doubt creeps in, providing sound business advice. You have to wear many hats, and you have to have your client’s best interest at heart. By limiting the number of clients that I represent, I’m able to provide the exclusive attention that every one of my clients deserves.”

To know Kurt Patino is to appreciate the unwavering commitment to those he represents. The faith-based, ambitious family man has cultivated a five-star reputation in the entertainment industry, and his eye for talent has led to the discovery of actors such as America Ferrera, whose breakout performance in Real Women Have Curves drew raves and launched her successful film and television career. For Patino, everything he does begins and ends with trust.

Kurt Patino
Patino Management Company
(Photo Credit: Sarahi Canchola)

“Trust is huge in this business,” he says. “Entertainment is very much relationship driven, and your credibility hinges on your words and your actions. Everything has to align or you come across as a phony. You don’t last long that way.”

Andre Agassi once said that image is everything. In this digital, cloud-connected, Fyre Festival world we live in today, so much of what we see is little more than veneer – professional-looking websites, slickly produced YouTube content, a constant stream of social media posts. Dig a little deeper and it’s all photo filters and selfie sticks. Kurt Patino doesn’t do veneer. Integrity is the currency at PMC, hard work serving as the gold standard. Raised in the North Hollywood neighborhood in Los Angeles, Patino learned that being authentic with a strong work ethic maintains a longer career than relying on style with no substance. He watched his dad thrive in his career because of his incredible dedication to doing the job right, doing it ethically, and doing it well.

“I grew up in the San Fernando Valley and led a regular, suburban childhood,” he says, reflecting on his idyllic childhood. “My dad was a CPA and my mom was a homemaker, and I was fortunate to have a really good home life and a really great family. They taught me right from wrong at an early age. There were a lot of older kids in the neighborhood who were fun to be around, and who taught me things. We played a lot of sports. And, I am still friends with some of them to this day. It was a good time. It was a really fun time growing up.”

Sports not only played a big part in Patino’s childhood, they set the tone for future success at Patino Management Company. He went to St. Patrick’s Catholic School in North Hollywood, right across the street from where he lived, playing tee-ball first before jumping into the Burbank Parochial Baseball League. He dreamed of becoming a Major League baseball player.

 Molly Hagan attends the premiere of “Sully” at Alice Tully Hall, in New York NY
 
(Photo credit: REX/Shutterstock)

“Growing up, sports were really my thing,” he says. “I played from the time the sun came up until the time the sun went down. I have a younger brother, and we would have epic basketball games in our backyard. If no one was around, I’d act like I was pitching in a baseball game and throw racquet balls or tennis balls at a target against our garage, which really helped my control when I pitched on my baseball teams. I later pitched in high school, at Bellarmine-Jefferson. By then I got involved in school politics, and was elected senior class president. Sports really gave me confidence and brought me out of my shell. It also fed my competitive juices, both of which helped prepare me for what I’m doing now.”

As a high-schooler, Kurt Patino was popular with his classmates, the kind of kid with a warm, magnetic personality that drew you in and held you in its orbit. He wasn’t a partier – you wouldn’t find him standing around with a beer in his hand – and he was just as apt to stay home and watch TV than go running around with his buddies.

“Actually, I got excited about the entertainment industry by watching television and going to the movies as a kid,” Patino says. “There was just something about the way that stories affected me on these really deep levels. I was drawn to them by the way they made me laugh, and made me cry. The stories about good and evil, where there were very clear heroes with big dreams against all odds, helped form my desire to strive to be the best, while practicing humility at the same time.”

Cerina Vincent on “Stuck in the Middle” on Disney Channel.
(Disney Channel/Eric McCandless)

Even back then, Patino was a nose-to-the-grindstone type of guy. He finished at the top of his class with a 3.9 GPA, the good grades generated by hard work and sheer force of will. And despite his popularity, extroversion wasn’t something that came naturally to him.

“Being around a lot of people can drain an introvert’s mental and emotional energy, because it takes work on our part to stay engaged when there’s a lot going on. However, I’ve learned to develop my extroversion and be more social with the goal of creating strong relationships that might not be immediately beneficial to my business, but will be down the line. The key is following the careers of business associates and finding opportunities to congratulate them and thereby find the right timing to pitch a client or project. Social media allows me to stay in touch with casting, directors and producers by showing genuine interest in their lives and accomplishments. I’ve learned so many fun & interesting things about colleagues in the industry through Instagram and Twitter, and I even once in a long while make a pitch through LinkedIn or Facebook. It’s always fun to mention their posts I liked before getting down to business. It always makes them smile.”

Patino’s wife-slash-actress-slash-client is Kelly Stables, easily recognizable as Melissa in Two and a Half Men and more recently as Kelly in the current NBC hit comedy Superstore. That the two of them are able to balance career and home life speaks volumes to the foundation they have as a family, and is  reflected in the very fabric of Patino Management Company.

Kelly Stables (as Kelly Watson) and Ben Feldman (as Jonah) on the NBC hit comedy series “Superstore”

“Kelly was my first client,” Patino says with a smile. “What impressed me most was how well-grounded she was. She works very hard, but her first priority is always family. One of the reasons I pursued a relationship with her is because she’s different than a lot of actresses. She thinks about the big picture in life rather than just waiting for her next audition. That really fit with who I was and what I wanted to get out of life.”

When it came time for college, Patino chose the University of Southern California. He emerged from school with dreams of becoming a screenwriter. After a series of production jobs and five years as an agent at Defining Artists (the theatrical arm of the Bobby Ball Agency), Patino decided to shift gears and jump headlong into the management end of the business.

“I started out as a production assistant and then worked my way up to 2nd second assistant director,” Patino says, reflecting on the early years. “At first it was exciting work, but after a while you come to the realization that the job isn’t as glamorous as it had seemed from the outside. Filmmaking is exciting, but it’s also slow and laborious. There’s a lot of standing around on set, just waiting for something to happen. Well, I’m standing in the rain one day and I think to myself, ‘What am I doing out here?’ I was soaking wet and freezing. And for what? I spent a lot of my time waiting – waiting for someone to give me my next instructions, or waiting to fill out my paperwork at the end of the day, or waiting for a problem to solve. That’s when I decided that I didn’t want to do that anymore, so I applied for a job at Bobby Ball, which, at the time, was a very successful commercial and dance agency. They had a lot of the top dancers, and also one of the top commercial departments in the business. They also had this little theatrical department that represented some TV actors, but the majority of them were commercial actors looking for film and TV work.”

Patino got his start as a runner, pulling pictures and resumes from huge file cabinets, then stuffing them in manila envelopes before hitting the road.

“We’d drive all around town delivering those envelopes,” he says with a laugh. “Olympic Boulevard, Sunset Boulevard, all over the San Fernando Valley, Santa Monica…that was the way agenting was done before everything went digital.”

It wasn’t long before Patino became an assistant for a theatrical agent, parlaying his hard work into more responsibility, and then into his own agenting gig.

“America Ferrera was a big discovery for me” Patino says. “I saw her in a showcase doing copy for a Coke commercial. A showcase is an event where an acting class will ask agents and managers to watch their students perform in the hopes of finding them representation. America just lit up the room. She had no credits – she was non-union, she was 17 – but you could just tell that she was a natural. She came in with such a charisma and a confidence that, as an agent, I was saying, ‘This is the kind of performer we want to have on our list. She just has something, and it’s very rare to see it.’”

America Ferrera “Real Women Have Curves” film screening, Los Angeles, Oct 16, 2017
Photo by John Salangsang

Patino signed the young actor, who immediately booked a Disney TV movie. And then, in quick succession, Ferrera landed her breakthrough role in Real Women Have Curves.

“She beat out hundreds of other actresses for the role,” Patino says quickly. “I went to Sundance [Film Festival] with her that year. She was nominated for a Special Jury Prize in the Dramatic Category, which she won. I remember her sitting with Robert Redford and being so comfortable and at ease. You could just tell that she was going to be a star.”

Patino didn’t stop with Ferrera. Over the next six years he worked with Rami Malek, who would later go on to star as Freddy Mercury in Bohemian Rhapsody; Jessica Alba, who, at fifteen, was transitioning from modeling into acting; Nick Wechsler, best-known for his roles as Kyle Valenti on The WB teen drama series Roswell and as Jack Porter on the ABC prime time soap opera Revenge; and Sam Witwer, who has starred in shows such as Smallville, Supergirl, and Riverdale. He also worked with a lot of the soap actors during this time, people like Farah Fath, who had prominent roles on both Days of Our Lives and One Life to Live. And he met his future wife, Kelly Stables, during this period.

“I invited her to attend a friend’s birthday party, and she agreed to go. There was an immediate chemistry between us. We’ve been married since 2005.”

While Patino enjoyed agenting, he also aspired to produce – something that had been with him since his days as a college student at USC. There was a small hitch.

“Agents could not produce at that time. It was against SAG rules,” explains Patino. “I decided to become a manager so I could start producing. I partnered up with another manager and we started our company, and then we ended up merging with another manager. Career-wise, the timing was right for me to make the move into managing. As an agent, if a client’s not doing well, they’re just not doing well, so you kind of move on to the people who are hot at the time. As a manager, I wanted to find out why they weren’t doing well, and what I could do to help better market them. I wanted to be someone who could stay on top of our client list and really guide them along the way.”

Kurt Patino’s creative side emerged in 2009, with the release of the independent web series Soul Fire Rising. Patino wrote and co-produced the series, which stars Jodi Lyn O’Keefe as Lilith Reborn and Kelly Stables as Eve. The series’ premise – that Demons and Wingers fight for human souls in the ultimate battle for supremacy – is enough to pique the interest of any sci-fi / fantasy fan. Lilith, a demon rebel with her own agenda, takes advantage of the vices Earth has to offer, while also taking many souls. The Winger Gabriel summons Lilith and makes her an offer she can’t refuse: Capture and return Eve to Gabriel, and as a reward, Lilith will receive entry back into Heaven.

JODI LYN O’KEEFE IN “SOUL FIRE RISING”
(Photo credit: Jacob Gaitan)

“The idea for Soul Fire Rising came to me in a hospital where my sister-in-law was having her first child. Everyone was sitting there waiting for the birth to happen, and I was trying to come up with a project that I could shoot. I just started jotting down ideas on a legal pad. I’ve always been fascinated with the idea that angels and demons exist, and I’m a fan of shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, so that whole world really interested me. I thought it would be fascinating to have a demon be asked by Heaven to save a fallen angel on earth before demons capture the fallen angel’s soul and use its power to take over the world. It’s an interesting concept, because none of us are completely pure. I think we all have this dark side to us, so it was me exploring the good side of someone who is dark. She accesses that, and agrees to search for and protect this angel from Heaven.”

Soul Fire Rising, directed by Dale Fabrigar, was a labor of love for Patino in many respects.

“Dale is an extremely talented director and producer,” Patino says. “He read the script and really enjoyed it, and after some discussion we decided to finance it ourselves. We shot four webisodes and put them on Koldcast.tv, which doesn’t even exist anymore. We were able to raise the financing needed for the remaining four episodes, and then we were able to secure a deal with Starz Digital, who turned around and worked a deal with Hulu. The entire 8-episode series was on Hulu for five years.”

While Soul Fire Rising is currently mothballed, the memories of putting the series together remain as fresh as ever.

“It was a ball to shoot, really exciting,” Patino says. “We shot in downtown L.A., and we were looking for the right car for Lilith – a car that you’d expect a demon to be driving. We found this great car at Bob’s Big Boy on Riverside Drive, in Burbank, of all places. The restaurant would put together these classic car demonstrations every Friday night, so all these people would come out. Kelly and I happened to be there one night and saw this really cool classic car. It had skull locks, so it just looked like the perfect car for Lilith. We approached the owner and offered to pay him to use the car in the series, and he agreed – we couldn’t believe it. I remember shooting in a factory warehouse in the middle the night, and he brings it out and drops it off. We took really good care of it. We were so proud of how the entire series turned out.”

If Kurt Patino’s eye for talent is the lifeblood of Patino Management Company, his commitment to his clients is its heart. The intangibles – the innate ability to sense what’s coming around the corner, the gut instinct to know what levers to pull – add a dimension that is often missing at other firms in the talent management space. Patino is equal parts nurturer and Nostradamus, his emotional intelligence in tune with his clients’ psyche, his finger on the pulse of what’s coming next. When pressed for his secret recipe, the answer is distilled down to one word.

Molly Hagan as Patricia Cordero on “Jane the Virgin” – The CW

“Trust,” he says flatly. “You want to have a good reputation, and it all starts with building trust. When people do business with you, they want to know that they can trust your work. They want to know that you’re doing the best that you can for their careers, and they want to know that you’re going to put in equal – if not more – work that’s needed to get a project set up, or to get a career started. If someone is putting their hopes and dreams in your hands, you want to handle that very carefully.”

A day in the life of Patino Management Company is one that’s heavily infused with communication, another core ingredient to the firm’s success.

“We’re always talking with our clients,” Patino says. “Whether that’s brainstorming ideas to help with a client’s marketing strategy, or researching ways to get them more activity, there is a constant flow of communication going on. We’re also talking with agents about ways to get more things started for our clients. We’re talking to casting directors and trying to figure out how they see an actor. We’re getting feedback after auditions so we can see how our clients are developing.

Clearly, acting careers take plenty of care and feeding. Patino relishes all aspects of his job.

“As an agent, you’re handling the business end of an actor’s career,” Patino explains. “As a manager, you are handling much more of the stuff on the personal end. You’re hearing all of the insecurities and fears that an actor has, and you have to build them back up when they have a bad audition or when they’re not booking jobs consistently, or when they feel depressed about a personal matter.”

Another key driver is having the client’s best interest at heart – which means shooting straight under all circumstances.

“We want to make sure that they trust that we’re making the best decisions for them, and that we’re advising them in a way that will help them grow both from a professional and a financial standpoint. We help clients believe in their worth. If a deal is bad, and it’s an average project, we’ll encourage them to pass on the project, because there’s no upside financially nor creatively. Actors will sometimes look at offers with short-sightedness. We evaluate every offer on how it can elevate a client’s career or their pocketbook. We have all the information. That’s why actors need good representation. We’re evaluating multiple factors with an offer. The client always has final say, but we explain the whole picture, so clients can make informed decisions about their careers.”

“Sometimes, helping them make the right decisions may mean advising them to spend money to take that extra acting class, pay for a new headshot, hire a publicist, or engage an attorney. They may complain – actors typically don’t like to spend money – but it’s my job to remind them that they’ve just landed on a series, or that they have a big movie coming out, and they need to build awareness. I’ve worked with a lot of actors through the years, and we’ve done really well together. Everyone that I’ve signed has gone on to do better, or they’ve done something while they’ve been with me. I’m very proud of that.”

Kurt Patino’s creative side reemerged with Tin Holiday, an adventure/comedy about best friends, Samuel and Jesse, who travel to London after Samuel experiences a life-changing event. It isn’t long before the vacation goes awry and the friends find themselves in trouble with the Punjabi mafia, Interpol, and in inappropriate couplings. Tin Holiday stars Juan Monsalvez as Samuel, Joe Camareno as Jesse, and Rosanna Hoult (The Lobster, Captain America: First Avenger) as Cassandra. While no release date has been set, the trailer hooks you from the jump. Tin Holiday won Best Story at the 2019 London International Film Festival.

(Poster Design: Sean Bell)

“Joe Camareno is a close friend of mine,” Patino says, smiling. “We used to write sketch comedy together at a place called the Eclectic Company Theatre. Joe has really been a champion of me as a writer, which is another big passion. He approached me about a movie idea he had and asked me if I’d help him write it. So, we sat down at the Backstage Café on Olive and he showed me a draft of what was a dark drama. I told him that it was really dark and sad, and I asked him to consider turning the concept into a comedy. The premise of his idea was of a father whose wife dies in an airplane crash, and how he deals with the death of his wife. I thought about it, and I was like, ‘Dude, what if it’s this guy who doesn’t get along with his wife – she’s always screaming and yelling at him – and then, serendipitously, an airplane part falls out of the sky and kills her?’ Suddenly, the main character has the freedom to go out and explore a different life. So, he and his friend decide to go off on the anniversary trip that he had planned for his wife.”

And that’s when things get good.

“He gets involved in an international conspiracy at an underground poker game. His friend gets kidnapped. He falls in love with a British undercover agent. So, it turns into this huge romance-comedy-adventure. It was a lot of fun. My friend shot it in London, and I produced the L.A. end of it. It was a labor of love, really; we shot it, and then it took years to get the post-production done. We screened it at the American Film Market in Santa Monica this past November. We’re now working on distribution for the film, negotiating with buyers domestically and internationally.”

Like Bernie Brillstein before him, Kurt Patino continues to be himself and do what he loves. He’s charted his own course, done things his way, and the end result has worked out just fine. Successful business. Beautiful family. A new sports podcast with his brother, called 123SPORTS. Board member of the Burbank International Film Festival (www.burbankfilmfest.org). Yes, the competitive juices still flow, just like they did back in the day, when Patino was throwing that tennis ball against the garage and dreaming of fame and glory in Major League Baseball. The competitive streak, while still a mile wide, has been redirected in ways that have made his life richer.

Kurt Patino
Patino Management Company
(Photo Credit: Sarahi Canchola)

“My kids inspire me,” Patino says proudly. “I have a seven-year-old and a five-year-old, and everything that I’m exploring now is so I can prove to them that they really can do anything. I want them to know that I stepped outside of my comfort zone.”

A devout Christian, Patino has made sure to set an example for his children.

“When my first son was born it occurred to me that I had never read the Bible,” Patino says. “By that I mean, reading it from first page to last. So, I made it a goal to read the entire Bible from cover to cover. If you ask anyone who’s done it, it’s quite a feat. I tried to read a passage a day. It took me like four years to finish it, but when I encourage them to read the Bible, I can point to myself as an example of someone who did it. And if I can do it, they can do it, too.”

Kurt Patino is always pushing himself.

Like one evening in 2019, when he took the stage for TEDx Brampton and did something he never thought he’d have the courage to do.

“The TED Talk is something that I can cross off my bucket list,” he explains. “I’m a huge fan, and I was thrilled when a friend of mine connected me with a TEDx organization in Toronto and helped make the dream a reality. It was exciting, but it was also terrifying.”

How appropriate, then, that Patino chose fear as his topic.

KURT PATINO at TEDx
(Photo Credit: Imaad Mian/Mian Studios)

“I wanted to face the TED Talk head on, and flip the script on the fear standing in my way. Fear, I’m now convinced, is a four-letter word for success, an acronym to help people keep fear from holding them back. The F reminds me to face whatever the fear is. The E reminds me to expect suffering. The A reminds me to avoid distractions. The R reminds me to remain patient. It was a thrill for me to share that concept with the audience, because I’ve had to work hard to overcome fear in my life. Professionally, there was a time when I had a couple of clients leave me, and I wasn’t sure things were going to work out. I was thinking of becoming a sportswriter instead, because this business can be so hard. At times there can be a lot of pain. You can invest time and energy in building up an actor’s career and push them up to the top of the mountain when no one believed in them, only to see them move on and sign with another company to satisfy their own egos.  It hurts.”

Patino pauses. He smiles.

“I’ve learned to keep things in perspective,” he says quickly. “I don’t want to build an empire. I don’t have grand plans to take over the world like an Ari Emanuel. I want to spend as much time with my family as possible, and still fulfill my goals and enjoy my creativity. I am competitive, and I am ambitious. I do want to continue to grow my company and grow in my filmmaking, but those aren’t the most important parts of my life. I want to grow as a father, and as a husband. I want to be present and a strong mentor to my sons when they feel discouraged, or they feel like they are stuck and can’t move forward. Those are the things that are most important to me now.”

Ask Kurt Patino for a piece of advice for others breaking into the business, and he doesn’t flinch.

“I have three,” he says. “First, don’t be afraid to fail. When I was growing up, there was a stigma attached to failure. Today, failure means that you’re taking chances. I was chosen to make a pitch at the American Film Market. There were hundreds of submissions, and out of those they selected 16 people to make a two-minute pitch in front of experienced producers. It was in a convention hall in front of 250 people. One filmmaker who pitched before me just wasn’t prepared at all, and the producers just tore her apart in front of the large audience. Witnessing that raised my anxiety level tenfold. Thankfully, my wife was there, and she helped me break it down piece by piece, and we ran through the pitch until I was ready to go. Afterwards, one of the producers remarked on the confidence in my delivery. I was dying on the inside the whole time I was on the stage. But afterwards I was proud of myself for facing my fear head on, and for not being afraid to fail.

KURT PATINO @ AFM
(Photo Credit: Lorenzo Escobal)

“Second, find a mentor. A good mentor will help you grow in ways you never imagined. Having someone who can help guide you, who can answer your questions, who can give you real world advice…mentors are invaluable.

“The last thing is to intern in the industry that you want to be in. If you want to be in sports, you should be interning in some sort of sports organization. If you want to be in entertainment, you need to be working or interning in the entertainment field. There are a lot of waiters in Los Angeles trying to make it as actors. You can throw a rock in L.A. and hit a writer. You should work your day job to pay the bills, but then go intern at Warner Bros. Go intern at a talent agency. Go intern at a post-production house. Those are the things that will make a difference.”

Kurt Patino works in the glitz and glamour that is Hollywood, but he’s a family man who values his home life and all of the ordinary things that go along with it. It should come as no surprise, then, that his better half is similarly wired and surpassingly compatible.

“My wife graduated early from the University of Missouri,” Patino says, “and her dad drove her cross-country to Los Angeles. She got a studio apartment and filled it with blow up furniture. The first thing that she did was find a church. The next thing she did was find a theatre. It was instinctual for her. The theatre provided a place where she could work steady stage productions, and the church was where she found her support system.”

Class Act – Kurt Patino
(Photo Credit: Sarahi Canchola)

Like Kurt Patino, Kelly Stables has worked hard to achieve her own success.

“Kelly never stopped believing in herself,” Patino says, “and she eventually got to where she wanted to be, with a multi-season recurring guest arc on Two and a Half Men. That was a huge break for her, but the thing is, she stayed focused on her goals and didn’t get distracted by the Hollywood lifestyle, or going to clubs, or any of the other distractions that come along with success. I really admire her for the person she is, her values, and what she represents.”

Kurt Patino pauses again, appreciating the way things have worked out.

“We are truly blessed by the Lord. We have two beautiful children, and both of them were born while Kelly was working on a series called The Exes. If you ask any actress in Hollywood, being able to have your children while being a part of a show is a dream come true, and Kelly did it. Still, Hollywood is a business. It’s not like we’re home free, and it’s not like things are always positive. We don’t take anything for granted. We still work really hard. We still struggle to get to the next level. But we have our faith, and we have each other, and if everything else were to go away we would still have our family. That’s the most important thing of all. You know what I mean?”


CONNECT WITH KURT PATINO:

Kurt Patino Management Company
Instagram
Kurt Patino TEDx Talk
123Sports Podcast


Written By: Michael D. McClellan | Cela Scott takes your breath. A multi-hyphenate badass with roots in Nashville and a career in Hollywood, Scott oozes brashness, confidence, and sophistication in ways that set her apart in an industry teeming with starry-eyed wannabes trying to make their mark. Meet her, and your first reaction is to find a parallel, but drawing comparisons only cheapens both her inimitable range and magnetic charisma. The talented singer-songwriter-actor makes up one-half of the LA-based alternative duo, Automatik Eden. On screen, she’s done everything from Wells Fargo commercials to Star Trek: Renegades to indie movies like the dark comedy Dick Dickster, where she plays a neophyte porn star named…wait for it…Peaches Ripen. Yes, Cela Scott is from this world, but she is not like the rest of us, nor is she someone who can be pigeonholed into a stereotype for the sake of conversational brevity.

“I like being me,” she says, settling in for the interview. “I’ve always charted my own course and figured out things on my own terms.”

Indeed.

Scott could have played it safe and stayed home, working some honky-tonk dive in downtown Nashville, fronting a mediocre band and churning through a weepy old set of country-music standards every weekend. A move like that was never in the Cela Scott playbook. Slender and radiant, with piercing eyes that grip you and refuse to let go, it’s as easy to imagine Scott gracing the cover of Elle or Vanity Fair as it is to watch her perform in the official music video for Renegades. Her vocals on the Automatik Eden single Gold to Straw cast a hypnotic, dreamlike spell where time seems to stand still, while the voyeuristic video dares you to look away. (Spoiler Alert: You can’t.)

Cela Scott

Earning her theater degree at the University of Southern California, today Cela Scott oscillates between music and acting with uncommon ease, equally comfortable in both worlds. Her husband, David Crocco, makes up the other half of Automatik Eden. Their debut LP, Madland, produced a single by the same name that charted on Billboard’s Hot Singles Sales Chart at #12. Scott’s voice delivers exceptional range, natural elegance, and lucent tone. There is a refined edginess to her vocals, a hint of danger dabbed with pop playfulness. She plays the guitar, and does so exceedingly well. And then there’s the look: Depending on the mood and moment, Scott’s eyeliner is a precision event, a marvel, as if drawn on by the kind of pre-programmed robot arm used for laparoscopic surgeries. Red lipstick. Black lipstick. Ornate, patterned jackets over Gothic, ruffled shirts. Tight dresses that stop mid-thigh. All of it complimenting the equally effectual look worn by Crocco and completing the vibe that is Automatik Eden.

“We have fun with it,” she says with a laugh. “When you take the stage, you’ve got to play the part. That’s rock and roll.”

Scott’s comfort level in front of the camera is evident at every turn. She’s acted opposite Tim Russ in Renegades and Robert Ray Shafer in Dick Dickster. She’s played a reluctant goddess of the underworld/part-time secretary at a dotcom. She can soon be seen in Deep in the Forest, a thriller starring seasoned actor Peter Jason.

Cela Scott in Star Trek: Renegades

Today?

Cela Scott continues to audition in the face of COVID-19, using her quarantine time to dress up like a rock star and produce a self-tape to be shared virtually. She, along with Crocco, are plotting the next move for Automatik Eden. Together they continue to grow Crocco’s Emmy-nominated audio post-production company, which has mixed such TV hits as Behind the Music, Punk’d, and United Shades of America. There are more songs to write, more roles to own, more galaxies to explore. All while staying true to her inner compass.

“There is plenty to keep me busy,” she says, smiling. “There is no shortage of opportunities. Sometimes I find it. Sometimes it finds me. It all works out in the end.”

No doubt.

The next chapter, like the last, is all about success.

Please take me back to the beginning.

I was the oldest of four homeschooled kids in Nashville. We were somewhat on the front wave of the homeschooling phenomenon, so not a lot of people had heard of it yet. Today it’s much more accepted as the norm, and now everybody knows what it is. And during COVID-19, many families are getting a taste of what it might be like! My mom is really getting a kick out of that. There was a lot of creativity in my family. My dad was a musician, and my mom was into the theater. I grew up doing mostly musical theater, which is what eventually jettisoned me from Nashville to Los Angeles.


What was it like growing up in Nashville, and how did that influence your creative side?

I came to the guitar later in the game, which is ironic since I grew up in Music City, USA. Nashville was mostly a country town when I was growing up, which is what it’s still famous for, but it’s become a much more diverse place for artists these days. I did not take music seriously as a youngster. It’s kind of what everybody was doing there – everybody in Nashville wanted to write a hit song, just like everybody in Los Angeles wants to write an Oscar-winning screenplay. Growing up I never really saw myself going in either of those directions. Weirdly, I sort of ended up in both of those worlds.

Cela Scott

When did you start singing?

I was in the Nashville Children’s Choir for several years, and we toured all over the place. We played Carnegie Hall and went all over the country, so I have this sort of classical background in music that later would transition into more of a rock ‘n roll sensibility when I got out into L.A.


You went to college at the University of Southern California. Please tell me about this period in your life.

I did my undergrad in theater at USC. That was a very cool time in my life. To this day, some of the closest friends that I have – many of whom are working actors now – are people that I met at USC.  Through the theater I also worked with my husband, David Crocco, on music for a theater piece called Vinegar Tom. This was an existing play about witch hunting in the 1800s, as told through the lens of a modern, feminist perspective. The director wanted to modernize the music that was supposed to go with it, so we created the soundtrack for the play. That was our first collaboration, and it later led us to form a band together.


You and David are Automatik Eden. How did you meet?

David and I have been together a long time. We actually met in Nashville as cast members during a production of Hair, which was before we moved out to California. Hair is this famous rock musical about hippies living in New York during the time of Vietnam, so there are a lot of songs about war protests, the most famous of which culminates in this nude scene at the end of a very powerful song where everybody takes off their clothes. This was a little bit too spicy for Tennessee sensibilities at the time, but we like to joke that we met in the nude [laughs].

Cela Scott

Have you acted together since?

Hair was David’s first and last play. He’s really not an actor, but he auditioned because he loved the music so much. He keeps getting sucked into it here and there because I’m involved in it, so he’s always sort of on the periphery.


How did Automatik Eden get its start?

It wasn’t until after college that we had the epiphany. David had been a musician for a long time, basically his whole adult life, but he had taken a break from it to start an audio production business for TV and film called. A.G.E. Post, which is now an Emmy-nominated post-production facility, which is pretty cool. In 2018 we were nominated for an Emmy Award for mixing Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath. We were kicking around one day in the living room, and he was playing something on guitar that’d he’d written. I had some classical text lying around – I think it was some Shakespeare or some poetry by Lord Byron – and I just started singing the words that were available to me. I was used to cold reading and rehearsing from a script, so I just sort of created a melody to go with what he was playing. We had so much fun doing it we thought, “Oh, maybe we have something here. Maybe this is something we can do together musically.” From there it evolved into the band.

Automatik Eden

Automatik Eden kicks ass.

Thank you! We started getting kind of serious about it maybe five years ago. We went through a couple of different machinations as a band – a couple of different names, and a couple of different band members – but it’s always been the two of us writing all of the original material and recording everything on the tracks. There are occasions where we will bring in some super awesome friends with specialized skills that we really like to showcase on the records, things like saxophone and cello. And our producer is a dear friend named Sean Beavan, who produces and engineers all of our stuff, including Madland. Sean is extremely talented. He’s worked with Marilyn Manson, and 9-Inch Nails, Garbage, and No Doubt. He has a killer sensibility.


How do the two of you collaborate? Is this like Bernie Taupin and Elton John?

Yes, it’s exactly like Bernie and Elton [laughs]. No, I would not compare us to those guys, but those are two of our favorites. David is one of those kind of musicians who can play everything. It’s annoying in an endearing sort of way, but he’s good at all of it – good musician, good lyricist, and good singer. In terms of how we collaborate, it’s been a little bit different every time. Typically, he’ll have an idea for a song that’s fully fleshed out, and then I’ll add a little sparkle to it and kind of fill in what’s left. Or it works the other way around – I’ll have something that is pretty much done, but it’s missing a bridge, or it’s missing lyrics, or needs a stronger chorus, and David will fill in the blanks. There have also been times when we will write something together from the ground up, so it really varies, depending on the mood and the situation.


Madland is one hell of a debut LP.

Thank you again! Madland was really important for us to complete, and we’re very proud of it. We did a few singles before this record, and we released a couple of EPs, but all along we knew that we wanted to do a full-length album. That was a big goal of ours, and we were able to achieve that with Madland. The title is our commentary on the insane state of the world as we see it.

The goal of the record – and I really do hope you got the opportunity to listen to it from start to finish – is for the listener to experience all of it uninterrupted. It’s good driving music in that regard. It’s throwback to the albums from the ‘60s and ‘70s that we loved so much, when the music was connected and it was really about a journey, where one song is meant to go into the next, in a particular order, and it takes you on a ride. We really missed that record experience. You just don’t get that with a lot of today’s digital music, especially with the attention span of today’s listener.

Cela Scott and David Crocco are Automatik Eden

Madland is really diverse.

You’re definitely going to hear some Beatles-inspired stuff. You’ll hear Radiohead and Massive Attack, too. There is a slinky, sexy, electronic, down-tempo kind-of-thing going on as well, which draws its inspiration from Portishead. The more upbeat and aggressive tracks might remind you of an early Pretenders, or maybe White Stripes.


Automatik Eden are wildly popular in Cleveland.

We do have a very strong following in Cleveland. It’s really great. David spent his formative years there as a teenager and as a young adult, and he still has a lot of friends there. We became connected with oWOW Radio, which, I’d like to say, is an amazing streaming service started by John Gorman. John became famous for WMMS in Cleveland, which was a terrestrial radio station that broke acts like Rush, Brian Ferry, and David Bowie in the United States during the early 1970s. People from that region know that station and know that guy, so it’s been very cool to be played a lot by oWOW Radio.


The voyeuristic video for the single Gold to Straw is amazing. You star in it, and it clearly plays into your strength as an actress.

Thank you! I love acting – whenever I can combine music and acting, it’s a good day for me.

Cela Scott in the Automatik Eden video “Gold to Straw”

Did acting school help you transition from stage to screen?  Did it help you as a musical artist?

I would say that in some ways it helped, but in some ways going from one medium to the other can also hinder you. If you’re so used to theater, for example, there are some adjustments that need to be made when you get in front of a camera. You’re not playing as big necessarily as you would to a stage audience. Being a classically trained musician was a really good thing because of the skills that I learned, but that didn’t really apply once I got into a rock ‘n roll kind of sound and started doing music videos. It was more important that the music didn’t sound too perfect or put together, the way one might sing in a choir, which is the way I learned growing up. I had to be aware of the difference, and then let things naturally be more edgy and imperfect. Then I could find the fun in that.


You play Persephone, a reluctant goddess of the underworld/part-time secretary at a dotcom, in the web series Godsdotcom.

That was a fun one to do. It has to do with the idea that the Grecian gods have fallen out of style, and nobody’s really worshiping them anymore. They don’t have the same cachet that they once had, so they try to make themselves relevant again by starting a tech startup company. It has a lot of elements of The Office. They find themselves in this office-y environment, although they are larger-than-life deities, and they have to do mundane jobs to keep the lights on. Persephone is a secretary with not-so-great of an attitude.

Cela Scott

Do you enjoy playing comedic roles?

Comedy may be my favorite thing to do. I loved doing Dick Dickster with Bobby Ray Shafer, who everyone knows as Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration in The Office,and Tim Russ from Star Trek: Voyager. Bobby Ray made the film on a shoestring budget, and he did it in a handful of days. He also used Citadel in the film, which is one of our songs from Madland, Citadel.

It was a lot of fun – I played Peaches Ripen, who is sort of a newbie, wannabe porn star with some serious daddy issues. She’s trying to infiltrate a close knit group of the porn community and make a name for herself, but she’s always messing up. It’s a fun premises for a dark comedy. It’s really a send-up of Hollywood and how everybody wants to be famous and sorta wants to be somebody that they’re not. I had never worked with either of these guys before, but they are so creative and so talented that it made it a blast to be involved.


I hear that you auditioned in full porn star costume.

Yeah, I think I freaked out Bobby Ray, who was at the auditions. I went in with long blonde hair, extensions, fake nails, super high heels, a spray tan, and a little cocktail dress. I was just going for it. Bobby Ray looked at me and thought I was a real porn star. And I was like, “I’m here in character, this is my resumé. I’m acting right now.” Then I did the read and he looked at me like I was an alien [laughs]. I got a call a few hours later and learned that I got the gig.

Cela with Tim Russ on the set of “They Want Dick Dickster”

How did you get your start in acting after moving to California?

I did a bunch of indie kinda stuff, which I still do – I’m pretty much always involved in some kind of independent film project. In 2015 I did a film called Death Valley, which was directed by T.J. Scott, who directed the television show Spartacus, among many others. There were several other cast members who were also from Spartacus, wonderful actors like Katrina Law, Nick Tarabay and Victoria Pratt. That film was very fun to do – they even ended up incorporating some of our songs into it as well, so that was an added bonus.


Your music has also been featured in a very popular Wells Fargo commercial.

Yeah, that was pretty cool. That commercial was created for the STAPLES Center, where the L.A. Lakers play. They have giant TV screens for the sporting events and stuff, and we shot the Wells Fargo commercial portraying a band that is “ready to rock the house.” They used the largest camera I’ve ever seen in my life, the lens looked like it was the size of a car. That was really cool to do, and it played for several years at the STAPLES Center. Actually, it’s weird to see yourself on giant screens like that. It’s surreal – you think you’re prepared for it, but every time you see it there’s a disconnect, because seeing something on that scale is hard to relate.


You’ve not only appeared in Star Trek: Renegades, but Automatik Eden performs the operatic title song, Captain of my Soul.

I ended up getting involved in Renegades through Tim Russ. I actually met him on the set of Dick Dickster, and we connected instantly. It turns out that he’s a musician, too, so I guess that was the common bond that drew us together and helped create our friendship. He’s actually a great musician, and he plays all over Los Angeles with his band, the Tim Russ Crew. He cast me in Renegades, which was a real thrill because I’ve been a total Star Trek nerd since childhood – and I still am!

Tim ended up asking David and I to do the title track. The captain in this series really takes to heart a poem by William Ernest Henley called Invictus. One of the lines in that poem is I am the captain of my soul. They really wanted to take this older poem in turn it into a piece of music, so that’s what we ended up doing. Tim Russ directed the music video, which was also a lot of fun to do. My scenes in the video are done against a rocky, desert backdrop, which gives it a really cool vibe. That’s how it all came together. Captain of my Soul is rather sweeping and epic, with lots of strings. They thought it was kind of appropriate for space opera like Renegades.

Cela Scott in Star Trek: Renegades

Please tell me about your role in the pilot.

The captain in this series is a female, her name is Lexxa. She is played by Adrian Wilkinson from Xena: Warrior Princess, among other things. I end up playing her mother in flashbacks to her childhood, and you quickly learn that she’s lost her mother under some tragic circumstances.


How important is it for an aspiring actor to have an agent?

You need an agent, definitely. It’s kind of tricky – you need an agent to get the jobs, but in order to get an agent you need to have already had jobs, so it’s a Catch-22 kind-of-situation a lot of new actors find themselves in. You have to start building a resumé  as best you can. It’s tricky terrain to navigate, because it’s not always easy figuring out what kind of work you want to get involved with…and it’s really hard to know the quality sometimes. Most actors are really just trying to build their reel, which is just a series of clips, an example of their body of work that shows what they can do. A lot of time you’re doing smaller projects in the beginning, maybe student films and independent stuff. You’re just trying to build that reel, so that you have enough of a resumé that you can take it to an agent who might be willing to take a chance on a newcomer. As a newbie actor that’s how you have to approach it. You want to say, “Hey, here’s what I have, here’s what I can do, give me a shot.” From there, you just audition and you do the best you can. There’s a lot of competition and it’s easy to get burnt out. It’s a wild world and it can beat you down if you let it, but for people who really love acting, you keep getting drawn back into it. It’s sort of hard to get away from in that respect.

Cela Scott & Lochlyn Munro in “Death Valley”

How important is networking?

It is, and it isn’t. I think there are a lot of “networking” events and workshops that are traps that young actors can fall into. I think you have to keep your eyes open and try to be aware of what’s a genuine opportunity and what is a waste of time. There are a lot of sharks out there preying on actors who are kind of naïve. I would advise that nobody ever spend money for anything that is supposed to be considered a networking event. I think the best way to network is to work. That’s the best way to meet other actors and professionals in the business who can really help. You want to network with the people who are on sets, and try to make as many friendships as possible. If you hit it off with the right people, that always leads to other opportunities.


What do you currently have in the works?

In 2020 I’ll be starring in the short film Impulse Control, written and directed by Juliette Beavan of the rock band 8mm. She is Sean’s wife, just a super talent. This film is the first in a series of narratives and music videos inspired by the artists in 8mm’s sphere. Juliette’s motto with these: “Move Fast, Make Things”. She’s in post-production on this one now, and there will be plenty more coming this year.

Cela Scott

If you could offer one piece of advice to aspiring actors, what would that be?

I would say hang in there. It’s tough. It’s also really rewarding. As a creative individual, be sure you have other things in the arts that you enjoy doing. For me, the saving grace has been having another creative outlet. When acting becomes difficult, I can go to music. When I start to get burnt out on music I can go back to acting. I think it’s really helpful if you have something like painting, or writing, or something else in the arts that can help fill that artistic drive when one area has dried up for you. It’ll be easier to keep your momentum going, and you can go back to acting when the time is right.

During Corona Quarantine, I’d love to encourage actors to use some of this extra free time to keep your talent sharp and continue to build your reel. Now is a great time to find a monologue online, or write one yourself, and tape it. Most of us have access to some really good looking phone cameras now. Order a little microphone online and teach yourself about audio. Direct yourself, download some editing software and learn about that. Plan to be ready to get back out there when the world opens up again.

Written By: Michael D. McClellan | Melora Hardin is on a roll. The Houston-born actor, who cut her teeth on ‘80s TV shows like Diff’rent Strokes and Magnum P.I. and later rose to fame as Michael Scott’s tightly-wound love interest on The Office, scored a 2016 Primetime Emmy Award nomination for her character Tammy Cashman on Amazon’s Transparent, and generated a stream of buzz from critically-acclaimed roles on Freeform’s The Bold Type and ABC’s A Million Little Things. Suffice it to say that Hardin is busier than ever, which is saying something since she’s worked nonstop in Hollywood since the age of six. Her IMDb is a roadmap of American television from the late ‘70s to today – skim it and you’ll find hit shows like The Love Boat, Little House on the Prairie, “Murder, She Wrote”, Friends, Caroline in the City, Family Guy, NCIS, Boston Legal, Gilmore Girls, and Monk. Impressive stuff for sure, but it’s as Jan Levinson on The Office that Hardin carved out the role of a lifetime, one that delivered international fame and legions of loyal fans.

“I still have so many fans,” Hardin says. “Because of the way things can stream and replay and play again, I sort of have a whole new generation of fans from The Office, so it’s really exciting to me.”

Adapted from a BBC series of the same name, The Office landed a whopping 42 Emmy nominations throughout its nine seasons, winning a total of five. Its cast won the Screen Actors Guild Award for best comedy ensemble twice in a row, and the sitcom itself earned a Peabody Award. For Hardin, not a day goes by that someone doesn’t bring it up.

“Fans know so many of the lines by heart,” she says, “and they feel like they know the characters personally. If someone says, ‘Walk of shame,’ it immediately brings back memories of Meredith stumbling back to her house at 6:00 A.M. to find Michael Scott and Deangelo Vickers delivering her Dundee Award nomination. The show has those types of iconic moments, and that kind of staying power.”

Hardin has a point. Try finding someone – anyone – who hasn’t heard the Michael Scott catchphrase, “That’s what she said!” Surprisingly, The Office wasn’t always on track to become the pop culture behemoth that it is today.

Melora Hardin as Jan Levinson – The Office TV Series

“We struggled that first season,” Hardin says. “Viewers compared it to the BBC version, which didn’t help, and there were only six episodes. We were still trying to find our footing, and it’s really hard to do that with so few episodes. The future of the show was on shaky ground.”

The first episode of The Office premiered in March 2005 to mixed reviews. The ratings steadily declined, which didn’t give the cast and crew much hope about the show’s future. One of the writers, Michael Schur (who also played Mose in the series), admitted in an interview (via Vox) that nobody liked the first season, and that everyone expected it would get axed.

Says Hardin: “Kevin Reilly was an NBC executive at the time, and he was extremely passionate about The Office.  He believed in the show, and was able to get a second season which lasted 22 episodes. That changed everything.”

It didn’t hurt that, prior to the Season 2 premiere, Steve Carell starred in the summer comedy film, The 40-Year-Old Virgin. The movie was a huge hit, and NBC loved the idea of having its newest comedy star under contract.

Propelled by a greenlit second season and Carell’s popularity, The Office now stood a fighting chance at survival. Lightening up Carell’s character was another shot in the arm. A masterful salesman with not much else, Michael Scott served as the Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin’s Scranton branch through the first seven seasons. Jim Halpert (portrayed by John Krasinski) once made a color graph of how Michael spends his time: 80% distracting others; 19% procrastination; and 1% critical thinking. Jim added that he inflated the “critical thinking” percentage so people could actually see it on the graph. It was that kind of chemistry that turned the show into a hit.

“I always thought that Michael Scott’s character was a classic case of arrested development, and that he was really a 12-year-old kid,” says Robert Ray Shafer, who played Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration. “There is a piece in Phyllis’s wedding, where they show flashback footage of Michael Scott when his mother marries his stepfather. When he sees himself at the wedding, I’m like, ‘You know, that’s who he is. He’s never gotten over Jeffrey getting his mom [laughs].’”

The “Dinner Party” episode – Angela Kinsey, Steve Carell, and Melora Hardin

And then there is the chemistry – or lack thereof – between Michael Scott and his boss, Jan Levinson. There are very few Office fans out there who will attempt to argue that Michael and Jan were right for each other. That awkward dynamic, however, is what made them one of the show’s most interesting couples. In fact, “Dinner Party” is widely considered to be the best episode of the entire series.

“Every day,” Hardin replies, when asked how often that episode comes up.

Today, The Office is still going strong. According to data compiled and analyzed by Nielsen, the Wall Street Journal reported in April, 2019 that The Office was the most-watched show on Netflix during a 12-month period that concluded during the summer of 2018. It attracted almost 3 percent of total user minutes, meaning that Netflix users spent 45.8 billion minutes basking in Dunder Mifflin’s chaotic energy. This even bests Friends, a fellow NBC comedy that attracted 31.8 billion minutes of attention and cost Netflix $100 million to keep through 2019. For her part, Hardin couldn’t be happier.

“The whole experience was amazing,” she says, reflecting on the show’s place in history. “The cast, the crew – it was a beautiful, fantastic, hilarious, wonderful journey. It will live forever in my heart, and it will live forever on film. I really feel grateful I was a part of it.”

You dad is actor Jerry Hardin, and your mother was an actress also. Is it safe to say that the acting bug bit at an early age?

Yeah, from the time I was six. I sort of tugged on their sleeves and begged and begged until they said, “Well, we’ll let her go on some auditions, and if she doesn’t get anything we’ll ease her out of it and she’ll never know the difference.” I got the first thing I went on, which was a commercial for a toothpaste called Peak, which is no longer around.


I’ve read where you started dancing at a very young age.

I was a very serious ballerina. I would’ve told you as a child that I was going to be a ballerina, and that acting was just my hobby. I went to Joffrey Ballet on scholarship when I was 13. I had some incredible dance teachers, and I’m so grateful for that. They gave me an incredible connection to my body, and confidence about my physical self and how to move through the world in a way that absolutely comes from my dance training.

Melora Hardin, child actor

What about acting lessons?

I was taught by my mom, but I also took a class with Stella Adler when I was 18 years old. At the time I was unsure about the direction I wanted to go, and I was contemplating whether I wanted to continue acting. My mom was an amazing acting teacher, and she had helped build this great foundation for me as an actor. She taught Leonardo DiCaprio, and discovered Jessica Biel and many, many, many people. But, at that point in my life, I had serious doubts about acting being a part of my future. I was thinking, “Is this really what I want to do?” Since I wasn’t sure at that point, I took the acting class with Stella Adler.


What was it like taking acting lessons from a legend like Stella Adler?

Ironically, she was really tough on women in particular. I did a scene from Agnes of God. I did all this work to prepare myself for the part, but I never felt like I arrived at what you might call a well-polished performance. I was very nervous when I got on stage to do it in the class, but it was one of those incredible moments as an actor where I got so in touch with the character that everything just seemed to fall into place. She turned to me at the end and said, “I have nothing to say to you, that was brilliant.” At that moment of time for me in my life, it was exactly what I needed to hear.


What advice did your parents give you that has helped in your acting career?

Teaching me the craft at a young age, and teaching me how to be professional, were very important. And most important of all: Persistence, persistence, persistence.

Melora Hardin as Trudy Monk – Monk TV Series

Did you have to audition for Jan, Michael Scott’s boss in The Office?

I did audition for the role of Jan Levinson. She was a guest star in the pilot, with the potential for the character to develop into a recurring role. I was made a regular in the second season. When I got the material for the audition I read it and I felt like, “I can connect to this.” So I auditioned, and I could feel from the vibe in the room that they really liked me. A big thing that worked in my favor was that they had taken my character from the BBC version, and [executive producer] Greg Daniels didn’t want to duplicate the same character on his show. He wanted it to be the character that I had created in the audition. I had never seen the BBC show until I got the role on The Office, and I didn’t watch the BBC version until the end of the first season.


When you took on the role of Jan in The Office, did you realize what was in store for her?

I really didn’t. It was written like she was this tightly-wound boss, because she needed to be a great “straight man” for Steve Carell. I hooked into her really well and that’s kind of how I played her, but we knew on the pilot that there was something special about the connection between Jan and Michael. There was a chemistry, I guess, that works with Steve and I, because we made jokes and played off of each other.

After we had filmed the pilot episode, Steve Carell and Greg Daniels and I were having lunch one day, and we all recognized that there was definitely an interesting spark between Michael and Jan. We kind of laughed and said, “Well, if this show gets picked up, Jan and Michael should hook up somewhere along the line, at some convention or something.” So we foresaw that that was in the cards for them. But as far as Jan’s weird unraveling, I don’t think anyone knew that was going to be the case.

Melora Hardin as Jan Levinson – The Office TV Series

Did the producers realize that there would be this crazy romance between the two characters?

I think we all just knew. We just felt that there was something going on there. So that was kind of what we did, we went down that road – I think hilariously. I think just the way she unraveled was kind of like the writers seeing something in me that I brought to the part and then me taking what they gave me and running with it. It was a wonderful, collaborative little dance that we did together to make it work.


Let’s talk a couple of popular episodes. In “The Client,” Jan kisses Michael during a weak moment in a Chili’s parking lot, jump starting their awkward romantic relationship.

I think to everybody, the first kiss in the Chili’s parking lot was ridiculous and surprising; the way the characters’ dynamic was just so push-pull, it was awful and pleasurable at the same time. It just sort of made you want them to hook up.


“Dinner Party” is an absolute fan favorite, and one of the most cringe-worthy episodes in a series made famous for its cringeworthy-ness.

I’m quite proud of the Dundie hitting the television every time. We shot that scene three times and I hit it every time – I think all the crew guys kind of had a crush on me after that! I loved the moment in “Dinner Party” where I put on the Hunter song and I danced inappropriately, because I am a dancer, and it was super fun for me to try to dance just a little off the beat, just a little wrong. I also loved the moment where Michael Scott heard the ice cream truck and he ran through the glass door, because Steve [Carell] and I were kind of improvising there and I said, “That makes me the devil.” And then I did those little devil horns, and he had such a real reaction! They were filming both of us at the same time, so you get to see me doing that and you also see his reaction to it in the moment.

Melora Hardin as Jan Levinson – The Office TV Series

Would you be up for a reboot of The Office?

If it was a feature film, absolutely. If it was a series I couldn’t do it. I’ve been too busy with other projects like The Bold Type and A Million Little Things to commit to a series. And I don’t think the idea of going back and being Jan Levinson again for a series reboot is really that interesting. I don’t even think the fans would really like that.

I would love to do The Office in a film because I think in a film you could get everybody, and you could probably get Ricky Gervais to pop in. A film would also be the best chance to get Steve to do it, and since all of my storyline revolves around Steve Carell’s character, Michael, I couldn’t really do it without him. I just can’t see him doing another series of The Office.


Although The Office ran on NBC from 2005 to 2013, it is reportedly the most-watched show of all time on Netflix.

It’s amazing. Jan has become an iconic character and she certainly is loved. I get people coming up to me every single day telling me how much they love her. It’s incredible to be a part of a show that has brought so much joy to people, and it’s exciting to know that it continues today. I mean, The Office seems to have a bigger, stronger life now that when it was being filmed. It’s like the show that never dies!


Your husband, Gildart Jackson, wrote the independent film You, released in 2009. You starred in it and directed it, and your parents were in it as well.

My husband went away on location for another project, and while he was there he wrote the screenplay. He was really missing us, which led him to write what I consider a love letter to me and the girls. The inspiration came from a moment that we had with our first daughter, Rory, where I had a daydream about what I might say at her wedding. And then he thought, “What if that time came and you weren’t there to say those things? How sad that would be?” So he explored how somebody who lost their soulmate would go through that process, how they would recover, and how they would find their way through the grief.


What did you remember most about filming You?

Wearing all the different hats on You was very exciting to me. It was my very first time directing and producing and being a part of the editing process. I have often thought it would be wonderful to try on the hat of every person involved in making a film. To have compassion and understanding of specific challenges and victories would give me a new appreciation for filmmaking. Taking on a project like You did just that.

Steve Carell and Melora Hardin – “The Deposition” episode – The Office TV series

What types of movies interest you, and did any film in particular have an impact on this project?

I’m very attracted to foreign, arty, and indie films. I see everything, but I find that I remember more detail from films like Amelie, The Secret of Roan Inish, The Cook the Thief his Wife and her Lover, The Piano, Delicatessen, Like Water for Chocolate, and many others. These films have made a distinct impression on me with their unique visual storytelling. Mostly what I wanted to do with You was to get the emotion, sensitivity, love and depth to leap off the page and up onto the screen.


You are also a wonderful singer. One of the producers for All the Way to Mars was acclaimed Broadway producer and director Richard Jay-Alexander. How did that come about?

Richard and I found each other through my mother, who called an agent friend of hers in New York and told her that her daughter needed to do an act. The agent connected me with Richard, and we met and really hit it off. He liked my music, and we ended up collaborating on an act together, which I performed at the Catalina Jazz Club. Then he hired me for the role of Fantine in Les Miserables at the Hollywood Bowl. Performing there was a pretty amazing moment for me, because it is one of the most beautiful outdoor amphitheaters we have in Los Angeles. That led to talks about my singing, and out of that came a decision to put out a new record. It had been ten years, and my previous record just wasn’t representative of how my voice had grown. So, with Richard’s coaching and Ben Toth, my musical director, we built a really beautiful repertoire of music.


Singing or acting – do you prefer one over the other?

You know, I can’t really say that I prefer one over the other. Music is one of the things that sort of rolls through you. With acting, you’re getting inside of different characters that really aren’t you. So I love them both. I’m constantly searching to express myself creatively in different ways, and I’m sure I’ll find other outlets as time goes by.


Do you enjoy performing on stage?

I played Roxie on Broadway in Chicago for three months when I was on hiatus from The Office. I am one of those people that there’s nothing more gratifying than being completely used up. I have been dancing since I was five. I’ve been singing all my life. I’ve been acting professionally since I was six. To be able to act, sing and dance all at once eight times a week was heaven on a stick. You basically don’t even need to pay me, I’ll show up!

Melora Hardin as Tammy Cashman – Transparent TV Series

Transparent earned you a 2016 Emmy nomination for Outstanding Guest Actress in a Comedy Series. What was that like?

Oh, my God! It was an unbelievably exciting time in my professional life, as you can imagine. I was totally shocked and just thrilled.


What was it like to be a part of such a respected show as Transparent?

You know, it’s funny. There was nothing difficult about working on the set of Transparent. It was so joyful because of its richness, and everything is really held in such love. As actors, what do we want? We want opportunities to stretch and to go places that we don’t go in our everyday lives, and I had that opportunity. It was really quite glorious to be honest. It feels really good to hook into the truth of a character and allow her to come through me that is, in a way, cathartic.


You have such an amazing onscreen chemistry with Amy Landecker. Can you tell me a little bit about working with her?

Everyone always asks, “How did you create the chemistry with her?” The formula for creating chemistry with any actor is the same: It takes two people that dive in 150 percent. That’s all it takes. The thing that I can say that I loved the most – and there’s a lot I love about her – is that she jumps in with both feet. I think we were both very fearless in that we did a lot of very risky stuff together. That helps to create chemistry, because you have two actors who are willing to take chances.


What was it like playing a woman who unraveled the way Tammy did in Season 2?

It’s interesting, because when you play a very together character, obviously there’s something underneath those coils that is tightly wound. I think that Tammy, in a lot of ways, was tightly wound, even though her facade was very cool and easy with everything. I think Tammy was all about making the picture look right, and I think the picture looked really right with Sarah. I think that when they broke up, not only did it break her heart, but it also broke her vision of this perfect family.

Melora Hardin as Jacqueline Carlyle – The Bold Type TV Series

In The Bold Type, you play the Editor-in-Chief for a Cosmopolitan-esque women’s lifestyle magazine called “Scarlet.”

The show is inspired by the ex-Cosmopolitan Editor-in-Chief, Joanna Coles, who’s one of our Executive Producers and who is now the Chief Content Officer at Hearst [Magazines]. The show revolves around three young women who are working at Scarlet magazine, which is a Cosmo-type magazine. It features empowering women, sex, relationships, workplace conversations, fashion and beauty and all other things in the magazine.


It has to be exciting having Joanna at your fingertips as Executive Producer of this series.

Oh yeah. We spent quite a bit of time together in the workplace, also socially. I’ve been able to observe her and I’ve called her a couple of times to say, “Is this something you would say?” or “How would you say this?” or “what do you think, does this sound right to you?” And she’s reading all the scripts as well. We’re definitely in collaboration about all those things.


Please tell me about your character, Jacqueline Carlyle.

I’m the Editor-In-Chief of the magazine, and I think she’s a very empowering boss, not a Devil Wears Prada kind-of-boss. She’s much more realistic. She thinks of what real women of power are like in today’s world. Just much more collaborative, empowering, nurturing, setting a high bar for her employees and expecting them to reach outside their comfort zone and pushing them, but not doing it in a mean or manipulative or deceptive way. You don’t have to like her but she’s really going to make you your best at what you do. She has integrity, and she’s decent. That’s the main reason I accepted the role. I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of it just being a flat character. I really wanted her to be three dimensional, which I think she is.


Your character is tough on the girls, but she also cares about them and sincerely wants to see them thrive.

I was really drawn to my character for that reason. I was originally chosen to play the role of Jennifer Parker in Back To The Future, when Eric Stoltz was supposed to play Marty McFly. When they recast that character, I was actually fired because I was considered too tall to play opposite Michael J. Fox. Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale called me at home when I was 17 years old and told me that it had nothing to do with me, that it was just that I was too tall. I later learned that they had no trouble with me being taller than Michael J. Fox. It was actually a female executive who pushed for the casting change, which was shocking to me. But again, that was 1985. I cannot think of one female executive that would say something like that today. I believe women in power want to support other women who are out there trying to make a name for themselves.


The show also shines the light on the importance of balancing a career with personal life.

You can be focused on being in the present. If you’re at work, be at work, if you’re at home, be at home. Turn the screens off in the house, put your phone down. Don’t be texting and emailing and being pulled and distracted. Stay with each other and take the time to be really connected. Eat dinners together and talk about the day. Ask questions of your kids, let your kids ask questions of you. I think that’s really, really important, to just really be where you are, don’t be half where you are. I think the people that struggle are the people that are half where they are and I think that sometimes you’re in one place and then you get pulled somewhere else. But I think that’s the exception more than the rule, and I think most women are learning how to have both things.

Melora Hardin as Patricia Bloom – A Million Little Things TV Series

Let’s talk about A Million Little Things. What was your approach to building a character that was originally cast as a guest spot?

Well, I knew that they were probably going to bring her back. I probably wouldn’t have done it if it was going to be a one-off thing. I knew that my character was interesting, and her character’s daughter on the show was struggling with cancer, and that was something that really drew me in.


Final Question – If you had one piece of advice for other aspiring actors, what would that be?

Persistence, persistence, persistence!!!

Written By: Michael D. McClellan | Robert Ray Shafer is perhaps best known for fawning over Phyllis as Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration in the hit comedy series The Office, but the West Virginia-born actor has played a wide range of roles in a successful career spanning four decades, his resumé dotted with everything from coaches and dads to killers and creeps. He’s also a pro’s pro who trained at the feet of Peggy Feury, his foundation built on theater acting and his reputation made in film and TV, his range stretching from Sam Shepard’s anguished, funny True West to the role of Hollywood movie director Dick Dickster, a drunk hack with a big ego and a bad attitude. Better yet, Shafer has done it all on his own. There were no connections when he decided to make that quantum leap from Pinch Ridge, West Virginia to the City of Angels. Ruggedly handsome, Shafer splashed down in L.A. with grand designs on becoming a model, but all of that changed when an actress friend suggested that he take acting classes.

“I went to the Loft Studios and I fell in love with the craft,” Shafer says, the words tumbling out like dark brown velvet. “I knew right then that there was no turning back.”

Shafer’s 1980 arrival at Loft Studios coincided neatly with the Magic Theatre premiere of True West, just up the coast in San Francisco. Shepard – a prolific, Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright and a prolific, Oscar-nominated film actor – possessed a stoically handsome face and a rangy frame, physical traits similar to Shafer. Both men also shared something else in common: A fierce work ethic.

Phyllis Smith and Robert Ray Shafer – The Office TV series

“Back home in West Virginia, I had plenty of good role models,” Shafer says. “I was blessed to have family who worked hard to become successful in their communities. They were great examples for me to follow. I brought that with me to Los Angeles.”

Indeed.

Shafer went to work, chiseling out a successful acting career where others could only see a block of stone. He has appeared in commercials, most recently in the hilarious Geico commercial featuring Kenny Rogers. He has acted steadily in film and TV, including appearances on the ‘80s Primetime Emmy Award-nominated Highway to Heaven, starring the late Michael Landon. He’s worked on HBO’s cult favorite Arli$$, starring Robert Wuhl as Arliss Michaels, the president of a sports agency who caters to his clients’ every need as best he can. And he’s appeared on such well-respected shows such as The West Wing, Boston Legal, and Adam Ruins Everything. Along the way, Shafer has developed a huge cult following for his role as Officer Joe Vickers in the ‘89 film Psycho Cop, and the ‘93 sequel, Psycho Cop Returns.

“The fans continue to show their love for those movies,” he says proudly. “I’m asked about the Psycho Cop films all the time, and I’m always getting invitations to appear at conventions and festivals. The staying power for these films has been incredible.”

Robert Ray Shafer as Officer Joe Vickers – Psycho Cop (1989)

Always pushing himself, Robert Ray Shafer has also been known to push the envelope. He wrote, produced, and starred in 2018’s Dick Dickster, kicking political correctness to the curb and injecting his character with a biting sense of humor, the rough edges softened with hard drinking. The risk is worth the reward; Dickster is a comedy that unapologetically crosses the line with its dialog, but the lead character, who seemingly has no redeeming value, wins over the audience with his plan to pay back the money he owes the mob.

“Dick is offered $100K to turn his cult movie, Cult of Doom, into a porn movie,” Shafer says with a laugh. “That’s when his problems really start.”

When it comes to The Office, there are no problems. The show has been created lifelong friendships among the cast, conjured legions of fans worldwide, and turned Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration into a cottage industry. Shafer, for his part, remains extremely grateful for the opportunity. He understands how lucky he is to have been cast for the role as Phyllis’ love-struck husband, and he goes to great lengths to reward Office fans for their loyalty.

“Best fans in the world,” Shafer says quickly. “They helped make the show a hit, and then make it one of the best-rated shows in syndication. Today, it’s one of the most-streamed shows in the Netflix universe. The fans have been great from Day One. I enjoy interacting with them wherever I go.”

You’re originally from Pinch Ridge, West Virginia. Do you still feel a connection to the Mountain State?

I absolutely feel a connection to the Mountain State. My family has been living there since 1756 – I still have family there – so my roots run deep. I visit quite often. I’ve always been proud to be a West Virginian. I felt like I was the state’s ambassador when I moved to L.A. in 1980, because there aren’t many West Virginians out here in Los Angeles. I was a rare specimen. I’d get defensive about where I came from, because we were always the butt of jokes. I would say, “Jerry West and Chuck Yeager both came from West Virginia and they’ve made names for themselves, so I decided to do what they did.”


Do you still run into people who take cheap shots at West Virginia?

Those stereotypes still exist today, so you’re always going to have someone out there who can’t resist saying something. There is some truth to it, because there is a lot of poverty in our state. Education has come a long way, and there continue to be strides made, but it still isn’t what it could be. Regardless, the good far outweighs the bad. You have to pick a side, and I chose to be very proud of where I came from. West Virginia made me.

Robert Ray Shafer

You were 11 years old when you moved away.

It was a very emotional thing for me. I used to lay in bed at night and cry because I wanted to be back home in West Virginia. I remember John Denver’s song Country Roads coming out around that same time. That song, even when I hear it today, is very emotional. It’s one of the greatest songs ever. If you search for it on iTunes you can find it in about 20 different languages. The sentiment of the song…I should have been home yesterday…if you’re a West Virginian and you’re away from home for any reason and hear those lyrics, it always takes you back.


You moved to California in 1980 and started taking acting lessons from the legendary Peggy Feury.

There have always been lots of acting teachers in Los Angeles, but back then Peggy Feury was the number one teacher as far as reputation and demand. She came from the Actors Studio, where she was Lee Strasberg’s right-hand girl, so she came from the world of Marlon Brando, James Dean, and that whole crowd. It was really cool, because our class had this direct connection to the birthplace of American acting.


Was there a waiting list to get in?

My girlfriend at the time was an actress named Susan Dey, from The Partridge Family. Yeah, that Susan Dey [laughs]. She was represented by the William Morris Agency. They were the best agents in the town, and they recommended that I go there. I was very fortunate to be in that class. My classmates included Eric Stoltz, Michelle Pfeiffer, Meg Ryan, Nick Cage, Sean Penn, and on and on and on. Needless to say, it was an incredibly competitive arena.

Leslie David Baker, Phyllis Smith, Robert Ray Shafer, Kate Flannery

What were the classes like?

We studied classic theatre, which meant we studied the great playwrights. One semester we would be doing Tennessee Williams, the next semester it might be Harold Pinter. It wasn’t geared toward film or television at all. Theatre is a different discipline, but much of what you learn on the stage that translates to the screen. The foundation for building characters is learned in theatre.


Being part of such a decorated class, did you feel pressure to succeed?

You always wanted to do your best. I was lucky to spend three years there. They called me “Mr. Scene” because I was always working. I didn’t go there to watch other people work. I was there to act. The more that you read and rehearsed, and the more partners that you had, the more opportunities you had to work inside of the class.


Did you feel like the class helped prepare you for your career in Hollywood?

I learned the tricks of the trade early on, but acting is the kind of profession that you can never master. You can never be perfect, or even great. There are times when your performance is better than others, which makes acting a little like golf. A golfer never has a perfect round. He’s always in search of the perfect swing. When it comes to acting, you strive that perfect performance but you understand that it’s one of those pursuits that never ends. You can never say, “I have mastered this. I’ll never be better than I was today.”


Does acting come naturally to you?

The trick is learning how to work in front of people. In other words, even when you are on camera, you’re living without appearing to know that people are watching you live. Like everything else, you have the good and you have the bad. Take Anthony Hopkins and Flavor Flav, for example. They are both considered actors, and they have both been accused of acting, but I would put my money on Anthony Hopkins. That’s because he’s a little more convincing to me. He won the Academy Award for Silence of the Lambs, and yet he is only on camera for 17 minutes in that film. Seventeen minutes. That’s called having an impact. His trick for that role was that he didn’t want to blink. The next time you see it, watch for that. Very rarely does he blink. After I learned about that, I watched the movie again. Afterwards I was like, “That’s a little something, but how hard could it be?” And then I tried it. It is hard as hell.

Interestingly enough, Jodie Foster’s character in that film is from West Virginia. Hannibal Lector recognizes her accent. And her accent isn’t too bad. That’s one thing that drives me nuts – actors doing bad Southern accents out here.

Robert Ray Shafer and John Krasinski – The Office TV Series

Does your West Virginia drawl ever turn heads?

Everybody thinks that I am from Texas. Maybe it’s because of my name – Bobby Ray seems like a Texas name – or because I’m a big-framed guy. But I have a pretty good ear for dialect, and there’s a big difference between West Virginia and Texas accents, right? There is a huge difference.


Are dialect coaches big in L.A.?

Oh yeah. There is a great story about Robert Duvall, who is one of my favorite actors. He’s getting ready to play General Robert E. Lee in the film of Gods and Generals. This is Robert Duvall we’re talking about, a living legend. He goes to a dialect coach in Los Angeles, the top guy, and he says, “I’m going to play Robert E. Lee, and I need a Virginia accent.” The teacher looks at him and says, “Which one? There are fourteen of them.” That is how specific the dialect is. You have the Tidewater area of Virginia, the mountains, the beltway around Washington, D.C., etc. The guy needed Duvall to be specific about the regional dialect he was trying to master.


Duvall does a great job in that picture.

Here’s a little Hollywood story for you. I actually got to meet Robert Duvall one night. I was at a nightclub that Jack Nicholson owned down in Silver Lake, and when I look around, Robert Duvall was on the dance floor doing the tango. He’d married an Argentine girl, and he had done a movie called Assassination Tango about a tango dancer. Tango is not easy, but he’s killing it and everybody’s watching. When he finishes dancing, he walks over to me and introduces himself. He says, “Hi, I am Robert Duvall.” And I’m like, “Yes, Mr. Duvall, I know who you are. Can I buy you a beer?” So I buy him a Heineken and we stand there and talk. Well, I happened to know about a really obscure Robert Duvall film called Tomorrow. Horton Foote was the screenwriter, who happened to be a famous Texas playwright that we’d studied in Peggy Feury’s class. I explained that some of Horton Foote’s family had come to watch the class do his original stuff. Once Robert Duvall learned that, we became pals.


Does Tomorrow fly under the radar because it came out the same year as The Godfather?

Absolutely, but what a great formula for a movie – a film based on a Faulkner short story, with the screenplay by Horton Foote, and Robert Duvall in the lead! Duvall plays a backwoods Mississippi guy who’s the caretaker of this piece of property, and he’s all alone in the woods. One day this woman comes along, and she’s pregnant. She gives birth to a child and she dies, and he raises the child as his own for four years. He’s happy – he’s got this kid, he’s got life – until the woman’s brothers show up and take the kid from him.

I’m here to tell you, that scene is one of the greatest scenes ever filmed. Those three brothers come and take the kid…they just take him. That scene is powerful. So when I mentioned Tomorrow to Robert Duvall that night, and talked to him about the play, he was really, really pleased. Everybody wants to talk to him about Apocalypse Now, or The Great Santini, or The Godfather. It was just a great moment for me, because I’m such a Robert Duvall fan and we really got to connect on an actorly level.

Robert Ray Shafer playing Chuck Henson in the 2014 film Friended to Death

When I asked Melora Hardin about you, she said that you are the consummate professional.

Melora is great. I love her. My goal when I started acting was very simple: Whatever I acted in, I wanted people to say, “What a pro.” I didn’t want anybody to say anything bad about me when it came to my work. That was the case when I started out, that was also the case when I first walked onto the set of The Office way back in 2005, in the middle of Season 2, and that’s still the case today.


That work ethic had to come in handy when The Office took off.

The Office became such a monster hit, and the pressure only went up with the ratings. I remember going to other sets and people would see me and say, “That’s Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration. He’s Bobby Ray.” They would gather around to see what you were going to bring. That’s because you had more notoriety after the show became a hit. The ratings didn’t change anything for me. I was there to kick ass every time. There’s never been a part that I thought, “Oh, I’ll just walk through this thing.” There have been times when I’ve been less enthused about the people that I am working with, but that didn’t mean that I diminished the effort.


Your first big break in acting was landing the lead role of Officer Joe Vickers in the 1989 cult classic Psycho Cop.

That was another example of where my training paid off. Wallace Potts was a stuffy, Southern gentleman from Alabama who wrote and directed the movie, and I auditioned at his house in the Fairfax District of Los Angeles. The audition piece was Sam Shepard’s play, True West. I had already been studying the script, so I knew it cold and didn’t have to look at the page once. I did one audition for it, and they offered me the role.

By the way, Sam Shepard was great at everything – as an actor, director, playwright, author – he won the Pulitzer Prize for his play, Buried Child, and was nominated for an Academy Award. He acted with Jessica Lange, for God’s sake. I’m a huge fan, and I’m lucky to have met him as well. The guy was good in every movie that he acted in. He was so cool. And hell, could he write.

Robert Ray Shafer is Officer Joe Vickers

How confident were you that you’d gotten the part?

Well, I knew True West. I’m sitting in the waiting room waiting my turn, and I’m watching all of these actors go in and read, and I can hear them in the other room just butchering it. Shepard’s material isn’t really easy to do, but I did know one thing: At the beginning of the script for True West, Shepard writes, “Do this play exactly as it is written.” That’s what I did. You have to honor the writer’s wishes. It’s not an exercise in improv or ad-lib.


Which begs the question: Are today’s actors taking more creative liberties than ever before?

Absolutely. A lot of actors these days are really casual with the language. It’s almost like they are dyslexic. They just make up their own shit. Their attitude is like, “As long as it’s close, that’s all that matters. Approximating it is good enough.” That’s not my style. In 2000, I actually got to do the 20th anniversary of True West out in Pasadena where Sam Shepard wrote it, and I remember getting into a fight with the other actors before the play even started. I said, “Hey, you’ve got to quit changing this dialogue. You got to do it exactly the way it’s written.” Even the director didn’t have a problem with the other actors improvising the lines.

It’s still happening today. When I was auditioning people for my movie Dick Dickster, which I wrote, produced, and starred in, I auditioned a couple of hundred actors and I was stunned by how many of them weren’t doing the language the way that it was written. I had agonized over those lines. There is a comma in there because that’s where there needs to be a comma. The actor should probably take a break there. When I do a piece, I always assume that the writer is in the room, and that he or she wants to hear it exactly the way that it’s written. I’m not there to rewrite the work. I’m not going to be able to improve upon it, but even if I could, that’s not my job. My job is to say what he or she wrote.

Actors Richard Grieco and Robert Ray Shafer

Tell me a little about the producers of Psycho Cop.

Cassian Elwes, who was a hot, young Hollywood producer at the time. He wasn’t sure he was going to make the film, and even then it took a couple of months for the financing to come together. He had just done Jack’s Back with James Spader, and he was also working with guys like Rob Lowe and Emilio Estevez, so that’s the company he was keeping. He’s gone on to work with everyone from Natalie Portman to Ryan Gosling to Antonio Banderas, so he’s gone on to have a great career.

Psycho Cop was coproduced by Jessica Rains. You may recognize that last name – her dad was the great  Claude Rains, who is one of the guys that I’m trying to emulate in that movie. He had acted in movies like Lawrence of Arabia, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and The Invisible Man. He was just a terrific actor. To have his daughter involved was a great connection to the past.


You very much looked the part for that film. You cut quite the imposing figure.

I actually went to his Elwes’ office dressed as the cop to close the deal [laughs]. I showed up in Beverly Hills in the middle of the afternoon in a rented the outfit from Western Costume. It cost me 100 bucks. I went into his office and acted tough for about a half hour or so. I think I cracked him up [laughs]. He said, “Alright, let’s make it.”


Like some other ‘80s movies, Psycho Cop is campy but fun!

There is no nudity in Psycho Cop, and there is very little bad language. It was really old-fashioned, even back then, so much so that some people thought that we were making a parody. I call it malevolent glee, when the villain takes such pleasure in his villainy. I mean, you’ve got to have a good time, right? My character wasn’t written that way. He wasn’t the silent killer. He had a quip and a one-liner for everything. That was the way that you had to do it.

Robert Ray Shafer as Officer Joe Vickers – Psycho Cop Returns (1993)

In ’93, you reprised your role in Psycho Cop Returns.

The original plan called for a Psycho Cop franchise, and I signed a $1.5 million, five picture deal. I remember thinking at the time, “Holy crap, I’m the next Freddy Krueger. I’m the next great horror villain.”


What happened to the Psycho Cop franchise?

I lived in Melrose / La Brea at the time, in this little Spanish bungalow apartment. I remember coming home after signing that contract and celebrating with an actor friend of mine who lived next door to me. It was a crazy period in my life. I had turned down a role in Back to the Future 2 for these five movies, and the casting director was stunned. She called my agent and said, “Are you kidding me? He’s not going to come and shoot with Steven Spielberg and Robert Zemeckis? Is he crazy?” My agent was like, “Listen, he’s got a five picture deal. He’s going to be Psycho Cop.” It was a tough decision. But on the one hand, Back to the Future 2 was just one movie, and this deal with Psycho Cop was for five. In my mind, I’m going for the gold. I’m betting on myself. I’m going to take the risk. I’m going to be good, the movie is going to be a hit, and I’ll make five of them. As it turns out, the distributor that acquired Psycho Cop also had Maniac Cop, so they killed Psycho Cop and we ended up only making two of them. By the way, Psycho Cop Returns just had its 25th anniversary on Blu-ray last year. The amount of love that we got for that was just crazy good.


Like a lot of actors trying to make it, you cut your teeth on commercials.

Yes. It takes a good commercial agent who knows the business to make that happen, and even then it’s hard. You audition everywhere. You get rejected a lot. I told my commercial agent the last time I met with him that I’m not sure how anybody ever gets one of these things. It’s really a numbers game. It’s also more of a modeling job than anything else. They are putting together a bunch of pieces, and they need everything to fit together. Do you fit the puzzle?

Robert Ray Shafer as Officer Joe Vickers – Psycho Cop Returns (1993)

Even big-name directors get involved in the commercial game.

I did a Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial with David O. Russell, the Academy Award-nominated director from Silver Linings Playbook and Three Kings. He’s a bit of a legend here because he is really hard to work with. KFC paid him a lot of money to direct this product launch, so there’s no doubt that they are airing it. I knew about his reputation going in, and I knew that you’ve got to get along with this guy. There’s a great YouTube video of him tearing Lily Tomlin apart. He’s screaming at her, calling her the C-word, treating her like shit. Who does that to Lily Tomlin? David O. Russell. When you have a director like that, it changes everyone’s mood. You’re walking on eggshells around this guy. You’re wondering when he’s going to come apart. You know that there’s going to be some screaming before the day is over, guaranteed.


How did you handle working with David O. Russell?

I was determined not to let him rattle me. He directs you inside the moment – in other words, he doesn’t wait until the take is done. He starts talking to you in the middle of the shoot. He’ll say something like, “No, I don’t believe that.” Or he will tell you to stop what you’re doing and do it another way. So you’re making adjustments live, on the spot, and most actors hate that. That’s why he and George Clooney got into a fist fight [laughs].


You’re an imposing figure. David O. Russell has a short fuse. Were there any punches thrown on that shoot?

Surprisingly, no. I arrived on the set early that day, and I was wearing my dad’s 1954 high school class ring. Bob Vance always wore it, and I’ve worn it in every movie I’ve been in, except in scenes where there is blood involved. It’s a beautiful ring, and David O. Russell spots it right away. He asks me where it’s from, and I say that it’s from Elk View High School, in Elk View, West Virginia. David O. Russell immediately lights up, and a huge smile spreads over his face. He says, “The first love of my life was from West Virginia. People from West Virginia are unique, and there are great girls from there.” From that point on we immediately liked each other, and the rest of the day went swimmingly – except for the fact that it was 105° and they kept giving us buckets filled with chicken. We ate a lot of chicken on that shoot [laughs].

Robert Ray Shafer and others from the cast of The Office – “Crime Aid” Episode

Let’s talk about The Office. How did you land the role of Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration?

I got the call for from Allison Jones, who is one of Hollywood’s great comedy casting directors. She does a lot of big films and works with all of the big name comedic actors, people like Will Ferrell. She wanted me to audition at 5:00 PM in her office. I jumped on the freeway thinking I’ve given myself plenty of time, because it’s ordinarily a 20-minute drive, but the freeway was a parking lot. I failed to realize that it was Halloween, which meant that they were holding the annual West Hollywood Halloween Carnival, and by the time I got there I was fifteen minutes late. I’m pouring sweat and out of breath because I’d sprinted from my car to her office, and the I’m immediately asked to audition. I figured I’d blown it.  Instead, I wiped the sweat off and nailed it!


What thoughts went through your head at the time?

I remember walking outside afterward, and there were three girls standing in the parking lot, dressed as angels for Halloween. We exchanged pleasantries and then they anointed me with their magic wands, and I’m thinking to myself, “That’s something that doesn’t happen every day…maybe that’s a good omen.” Sure enough, a couple of weeks later my agent called. The producers wanted to meet me. They wanted me to come to the lot where they were shooting, which was on Saticoy Street in Van Nuys. So I went over there. Phyllis was there. She was in the casting room when I walked in, and it boiled down to her choice – who she felt most comfortable with, who she felt was right for the role. They asked her who she wanted…and she picked me. There were some big boy character actors auditioning for that part, so it was a good get.  Thank you, Phyllis!


What was the audition like?

They had me do a lot of improv. That’s not something you normally do at an audition. You’re not supposed to be in there writing for them, you know what I mean? They are supposed to provide you the material, and you are supposed to act and read the lines provided to you. But what are you going to do, refuse?  I felt like I struggled because they would point to an empty space and say, “That’s Michael. React to Michael.” But there was no Michael there. There were five producers sitting in chairs with Phyllis. Interestingly enough, the part of Bob Vance was originally intended for one of the show’s producers, but he decided that he didn’t want to do it. The very next morning I was on the set. So, I went from auditioning for the part to filming on the set the very next day.

Robert Ray Shafer and Rainn Wilson – The Office TV Series

Had you watched The Office prior to auditioning?

I had watched a couple of those first season episodes, and I remember thinking, “What the hell is this?” The mockumentary format was so shocking. We’ve seen it in films, but not in a TV series like that. Michael Scott was sort of a dark character that first season, because they were pretty much going word-for-word with some of the early British scripts.


Ratings-wise, The Office got off to a slow start.

There were six episodes in that first season. It was a summer replacement, and it was one of the lowest rated shows in NBC history. It pulled 2.1 average Nielsen rating, meaning that no one was watching it. Then The 40-Year-Old Virgin came out and became a $100 million box office hit. It crushed. Steve Carell was not a name at the time – I mean, nobody knew him – but the movie was a big hit, so NBC said, “Maybe we’ve got something with this guy,” and they ordered 13 more episodes. I came onboard during Episode 10 of Season 2, and later that week The Office got picked up for the rest of the season.


Bob Vance and Phyllis are unwavering in their love for each other.

That’s all my doing, and it was selfishly fueled by my desire to get myself more appearances on the show [laughs]. I remember sitting there talking to Phyllis – her real name is Phyllis Smith – and I said, “Do you remember your first love in junior high school? I do, and I didn’t have eyes for anybody else but her.” So that’s what I what I decided to make Phyllis – my first love. I wanted to put her on a pedestal and make everything all about her. I know the writers try to take credit for it now, like it was an idea that they came up with. But that was all me [laughs].

Phyllis Smith and Robert Ray Shafer – The Office TV Series

Bob and Phyllis weren’t above sneaking in a little sex whenever they had the chance. In one of the “Valentine’s Day” episodes, one minute they’re having lunch with Jim and Pam, then next they slip off to the restroom for a quickie.

I looked around the restaurant and there weren’t any disabled people at the time, so that made the handicap-accessible restroom fair game. Had there been a disabled person, we wouldn’t have gone in there [laughs]. Seriously though, that was one of the funniest moments that Phyllis and I ever had on the show. We were in that restroom, the lights were off, and all we had with us was a mic. There’s no camera shot of us in the restroom; it’s just us making noises in there, and trust me, they really pushed us to come up with something on the naughty side [laughs].  They had us making noises for 30 seconds to a minute at a time, all to get two seconds of moaning. Meanwhile, the cast and crew were outside the door laughing at us. Hell, it was hard for Phyllis and I not to laugh. And then you had Jim and Pam’s reaction, which you see onscreen, and that is what made the scene work so well.


How did The Office evolve while you were on the show?

The bathroom scene is a great example. That type of timing and comedy was the hallmark of the first five seasons. Then the writers started to change – we lost Greg Daniels and Michael Shur, who actually created Bob Vance, to Parks and Recreation; Gene Stupnitsky and Lee Eisenberg left to write Bad Teacher and work on the Ghostbusters reboot – so there were some subtle changes in how the material was presented. You suddenly had people in there who were fans of the show. They weren’t writing behavioral comedy anymore, they were writing joke comedy…set up, set up, punch line. If you go back and watch, Michael Scott and Dwight Schrute became much more jokey those last couple of years.


The Office is a  show about heart. People identify with the mundane, funny moments associated with working at a place like Dunder Mifflin. When do you think the audience started to connect with the characters?

Seasons 2 through 5 were as good as it gets. Then, once the show became a hit, everyone’s makeup was better, the wardrobes were better, the hair was better…because people are stars now. Those first couple of years, no one was in a hurry to be somewhere else. Everybody was happy to be there and to be doing that show. But The Office opened up so many doors. People were like, “Listen, I’ve got to be out of here by four because I got a movie promotional with Fox.” Those are the kinds of things that happen when a show takes off and there are so many more opportunities.

Phyllis Smith and Robert Ray Shafer – The Office TV Series

Was it that easy to wrap up filming and head off to do something else?

On most film and television shoots, you’re usually not in every scene every day, so that was one dynamic that the cast had to deal with. When you’re filming The Office, once you were in a scene, you were in it. There weren’t all of these separate camera angles, so if you were in a long scene, once you’d taken up a position, you became a permanent part of the background. You couldn’t leave. That used to drive all of the desk jockeys nuts, because they would need to be working at their desks while the crew filmed a scene with Steve Carell. They would be like, “I’m stuck here…I can’t go anywhere…I’m here all day…there’s no leaving.” Me, on the other hand, there were times when I would only be in a couple of scenes. I’d wrap up by lunch, and I would be like, “Okay, see you later. You guys have a great afternoon. I’m going to go play some golf now [laughs].”


The camera work in The Office was unique at the time.

The cameras were handheld all of the time, never on skids or dollies. The two original shooters, Randall Einhorn and Matt Sohn, both came from shooting the first couple of seasons of Survivor. When you’re handling a 75-pound camera, that’s a long day at work. There were guys standing right there beside them, and every time you’d hear cut they would immediately get the cameras out of their hands.


Was it hard to get used to that style of filming?

It was interesting to watch actors other than the regular cast come on set and shoot in that format. I remember Amy Pietz, from Caroline in the City, coming in to shoot an episode. Caroline in the City was a standard format TV show, and she’d never done anything like The Office. She was having trouble adjusting at first, but she got the hang of it and was fine. Once you get used to where the camera was, it became a very liberating way in which to shoot.


That handheld, close-up style of shooting really draws the audience close.

I remember shooting Desperate Housewives, and they were doing old-fashioned setups; the master, the two shot, and the close-up. Every setup is the same, really. It’s wide, medium, and close every time. It’s just a completely different discipline, right? With a standard close-up, you approach it differently than how you behave in front of a video camera. With a video camera there’s no need to set yourself or minimize your movement. You don’t turn and lean into the camera. It’s just different. You just live in it. In a lot of ways, it’s like doing theatre.

Phyllis Smith and Robert Ray Shafer – The Office TV Series

Do the shows take on a rhythm of their own after a while?

I remember the “Crime Aid” episode of The Office, when Dwight and I are bidding for a hug from Phyllis. We’re going back and forth, and he’s raising me a penny every time, and there are other people bidding as well. There was one take where it was absolutely musical. Everybody just nailed it. Everyone was right on top of when they were supposed to be in. It was perfection. I remember thinking, “What we’re doing in that moment is on par with the musical Oklahoma. What’s that line…[sings] Oklahoma, when the wind comes sweeping down the plain. That’s really what great comedy is all about; the timing and the rhythm of the thing. Sam Shepard wrote in a rhythm. If you learned it exactly the way he wrote it, it just flows. That’s what good writing does.


Steve Carrell was perfect as Michael Scott.

I always thought that Michael Scott’s character was a classic case of arrested development, and that he was really a 12-year-old kid. There is a piece in Phyllis’s wedding, where they show flashback footage of Michael Scott when his mother marries his stepfather. When he sees himself at the wedding, I’m like, “You know, that’s who he is. He’s never gotten over Jeffrey getting his mom [laughs].”


Tell me about the “Five Families.”

The name’s funny, just in and of itself. And then there’s the crime connection. You’ve got the cool guy, Paul Faust, whose only appearance was in the “Chair Model” episode. They referred to him as “Cool Guy Paul,” because one of the producers had met him and thought that this guy was really cool. I remember thinking, “Wait a minute, I am the cool guy here. I have an air conditioning company, shouldn’t I be ‘Cool Guy Bob?’” The guy that played W.B. Jones was a friend of mine. I had auditioned with him for years. We used to always be up for these policeman roles, and every time I’d go in to audition he would be there too, so it was great to have him on that set.


I love the “Chair Model” episode.

The “Chair Model” episode was memorable for me because part of it was shot in the Vance Refrigeration conference room. There were all of these little touches, so it felt like my own set. It had my name on the door, there are pictures of Phyllis on the wall. That was a pretty pleasing day for me right there.


Here’s a mouthful:  Michael Scott’s Dunder Mifflin Scranton Meredith Palmer Memorial Celebrity Rabies Awareness Pro-Am Fun Run Race For The Cure.

Great episode. It was Michael Scott’s idea, and then the sonofabitch “carbo-loads” on fettucine alfredo and throws up…he blows his cookies right there on the street, but at least he finishes [laughs]. There’s also a deleted scene where Angela spits on Bob Vance at the beginning of the race. I remember thinking, “What the hell is this? Why is she spitting on me? Phyllis will take her out!”

It was a tough shoot, because it was 110° in the valley that day. Every time I drive by the park that we ended up in, I remember that day and how hot it was. As a matter of fact, the week that we shot that episode, I was getting on a plane and flying back to Charleston to throw out the first pitch at the West Virginia Power baseball game. I was pretty excited to go throw out that pitch. Last year I went to Scranton on Labor Day and threw out the first pitch at their game in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.

The “Dinner Party” – The Office TV Series

In a show made famous for its cringe-worthy moments, “Scott’s Tots” and the “Dinner Party” episodes stand out.

Well, the “Dinner Party” is one of the greatest episodes ever made. In fact, Rolling Stone magazine put together a book about The Office, and I wrote an article about the “Dinner Party” for it. That episode was based on Edward Albee’s play, Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? If you’ve ever watched Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor in that movie, they make Jan and Michael look like they are in love [laughs]. Burton and Taylor just go at it, and that’s pretty much what they were going for in that episode. Melora Hardin is just great. When we shot that prison movie together, the “Dinner Party” was the episode that we had a big laugh about.


Please tell me a little known fact about your friend Melora Hardin, who plays Jan in The Office.

Melora and I did a prison movie together a couple of years ago. It was odd because you had two actors from The Office ending up in a prison movie, and a gritty one at that. Trust me, it was not a comedy. She played the bad prison guard – basically, I was the good cop and she was the bad cop – and she was as scary as hell. Yeah, she really roughed this guy up.


The Office really put Scranton on the map.

The tourism in Scranton because of The Office is legendary. Every business that we’ve ever mentioned on that show loves us. Poor Richards is a great example. I’ve been to Scranton three times so far. We did a convention there in 2007, and 15,000 people came from all over the world…Ireland, Australia, you name it. It was crazy. The organizers had a police escort assigned to us, and I’m thinking, “I’m from West Virginia I don’t need a stinking policeman.” Turns out I did. The minute you stepped out of the Radisson Hotel you were surrounded. The next time back was part of a fan tour, and then we went back for an event last year. I think it was Kevin who said, “Holy crap, it’s kind of like being a Beatle!” They all love you, so there’s nothing wrong with that.


Let’s talk about your movie, Dick Dickster and the Cult of Poon…a down-on-his-luck drunk with a hitman on his heels.

There’s a movie that I loved when I first started out in the business, called The Stuntman. Richard Rush was the director, and Peter O’Toole was just brilliant as the lead. He’s very manipulative. So that was where I started, and then it got darker and darker because I wanted to make Dick Dickster someone that everyone hated. I believe I achieved that [laughs].


Dick Dickster has no problem crossing the line when it comes to political correctness.

I set out to offend everyone – which I did – and I am proud of it. I don’t believe in P.C. comedy. I think everybody is a fair mark. Dick is sexist, misogynistic, racist, homophobic…he’s everything. So, the trick was figuring out a way to soften him up somehow. You can’t keep him on the edge all of the time. He has to have some sort of redeeming value. By the end of the movie, people love him and they are rooting for him, even though he is a monster.


How did you pull that off?

The trick was alcohol. He was drunk the whole movie. He constantly has a drink in his hand. A drunk is allowed certain liberties when it comes to forays into sensitive material. For instance, Dick has a run-in with a gay wardrobe guy in the movie. He doesn’t call him “faggot.” He calls him “cocksucker.” It’s that kind of little nuance that lets you get away with a little bit more. In that way it softens the direct blows, if you will.

Robert Ray Shafer and Cela Scott – Dick Dickster (2018)

Jan Brogerg is in the film. She had the Netflix documentary Abducted in Plain Sight.

She plays Coco Hart. Funnily enough, I’m partly responsible for Abducted in Plain Sight. Jan was originally going to make it into a Lifetime movie, and she gave me a copy of the book that her mother had written. I read the book and told Jan that I was really freaked out by it. I was like, “Listen, you’re not going to get this made into a Lifetime movie, you need to make a documentary.”  That’s what she ended up doing.


How much did it cost to make Dick Dickster?

I made the Dick Dickster in six days, for $75,000. I don’t know about you, but I think that movie holds up pretty well for that budget.


It looks like it cost a lot more than that.

I had a sweetheart deal with the Screen Actors Guild, so that was an advantage that I had with the talent. I was able to get Tim Russ from Star Trek: Voyager. I got Richard Grieco. For that level of budget, you are talking some big names. Everybody involved was into it, and attacked it with abandon. Another key thing was that I edited that movie myself using Final Cut. I cut it down from 135 minutes to 87 minutes. Then I had a professional editor finish it off with his equipment.


You were the producer, writer, and lead actor. That’s a lot on one plate.

People ask me why I didn’t direct it. The simple answer is that it was too much. I can’t direct myself when I’m acting, because I want somebody else watching it. They need to see things through a different lens, so to speak.

I’ll give you an example. I was doing a play, and it was the night before opening night and we were doing the dress rehearsal. I had this big scene where I am at my father’s grave, and I’m saying, “Old man, you were this, you were that, you were a son of a bitch.” All of a sudden the director calls for cut and says, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “What do you mean, what am I doing? I’m standing here at this grave, and I’m talking to my father.” The director looks at me and says, “Well, your father is not in the grave, you dumb ass. He is up in heaven. Look up to the heavens when you say your lines.” The minute I looked up to the heavens, the whole thing changed. Oh my God, I started weeping. I wasn’t talking to a dead guy in the ground anymore. I was talking to a material being who was looking down from above. That is what a good director does.

Robert Ray Shafer as Dick Dickster – Dick Dickster (2018)

Let’s talk craft: Is there a technique when it comes to auditioning?

Absolutely. After I’d done Psycho Cop, I thought I was pretty hot stuff because I had a big movie under my belt. I assumed the roles would fall into my lap. I quickly learned that I wasn’t booking work at the rate that I needed, so I went to an acting class that taught me an audition technique. My professional life changed almost immediately. I booked Las Vegas, Boston Legal, and a little show called The Office, all because I had taken this class – and because I decided to outwork everyone.


In what ways?

I made it a point to get the actor breakdowns. Those are write-ups of the projects that includes a synopsis or description of the project, in addition to detailed descriptions of all the characters/roles in the script they are currently casting for. Basically, I was submitting myself. I got up at 4 o’clock every morning and submitted postcards that I had in the mailbox by 6:00 AM. It would be delivered that day, and I could be assured that the casting director would have a picture of me by 10:00 AM. I quit thinking like I had made it, and that’s how I changed things around.


Do you recommend acting classes?

They are a must. You have to learn how to memorize lines, you need to learn scene study, you need exposure to a lot of different disciplines. And again, I think theatre is where you get your foundation, so that’s another must. I was working with this hot young actor on a movie once. He was very successful, and had done a bunch of TV series. I asked him if he’d ever done any theatre and he was like, “Oh, hell no. It’s too scary. I will never do it.” I asked why, and he said it was because theatre is live. The thought of standing in front of a live audience and acting scared the living hell out of him.

Jan Broberg, Robert Ray Shafer, Cela Scott – Dick Dickster (2018)

Do you think that it’s a sign of the times? Actors today specializing in either film or theatre?

Call me old school, but performing live makes you a better actor. There are no multiple takes. You’ve got one shot. You go out there, and you live the thing for two hours. That is the purest form of acting that there is. You don’t break the character, you stay in it. And you learn to project; when I did True West, I was right on top these people, and I was ripping them. They felt the power of this thing, especially with my voice in a small room because I’m going to crush it. I am always the sound guy’s favorite guy [laughs]. They love me because they never have to worry about hearing me. When you’re in the theater you can use that weapon to its fullest potential.

I’m not the only actor to go down that path. True West is the piece that launched John Malkovich and Gary Sinise. Philip Seymour Hoffman and John C. Reilly did True West on Broadway and switched parts…one night one guy would play one brother, and the other night the other guy would play it. The Quaid brothers did it. Ed Harris did it. It’s one of those measuring sticks. All of the big boys have done it. Why? Because a live performance of True West demands that kind of perfection.


Zach Galifianakis just released Between Two Ferns: The Movie on Netflix. What was it like to be involved in a project like that?

I’m sure you’ve seen the cast list, it is just crazy. There are a lot of name people in this. When I was shooting, Gal Gadot – a.k.a., Wonder Woman – was also there. Matthew McConaughey, John Legend, Keanu Reeves, Will Ferrell, Chance the Rapper…I mean, hello?

It was a great experience. First of all, I am a huge fan of Zach Galifianakis. He is a funny, funny, guy. I went and auditioned for the role of his dad, even though I am only 10 years older than him, but that’s okay – I’m there to make him look good, I am not there to steal scenes from him. It’s not going to happen. It is always going to be Zach that closes the scene, right?

Director Wallace Potts and Robert Ray Shafer at the wrap part for Psycho Cop (1988)

Netflix and other services like it are really changing the way we watch content.

I told somebody this today, the one downside to Netflix is that you don’t get to see a great movie like Between Two Ferns in a crowded theater with everyone laughing. That is really what makes this kind of comedy work. I remember seeing There’s Something About Mary in a crowded theater, and the connection with the audience made the experience so much better. When we screened Dick Dickster, we had a full theater and everybody was laughing. There’s a community to comedy that is missing when it’s five people and popcorn and beer at your house.


What was it like acting with Zach?

I tell people, that it’s a bit like being locked in a car with the windows rolled up, and somebody has thrown a bobcat in there [laughs]. Somebody is getting mauled. Zach’s going to be funny. At one point, I stand up at the dinner table, and I take my belt off and threaten to spank him. He jumps up and he takes his belt off. I mean, his talent for improv is just crazy.

Robert Ray Shafer and Creed Bratton – The Office TV Series

Zach has made it big, but I’m sure he’s had to work his way up like everybody else.

We were talking on the set one day and I said, “When you went away to become an actor, did you ever ask your father for money?” He said he remembered being broke in New York and getting a package in the mail from his father. He went on to explain that, when you’re struggling and you need money, you are hoping that somebody is just going to know it intuitively, and that they are going to send it to you with you asking. He said he was excited when the package arrived, because he just knew that his father could sense the desperation coming from his struggling actor/son trying to make it in New York. He was hungry, he needed to pay his rent, winter was coming and he could use a warm jacket…surely his father had the intuition to send a check. Zach said that when he opened up that package, a check was nowhere to be found. Instead, what he found was a 3-pack of Haynes underwear. I listened to him tell that story, and the deadpan way in which he delivered it, and I just burst out laughing. It was like I was watching a live scene straight out of The Hangover.


Money is always good, but there’s something to be said for clean underwear!

I have a quick-but-funny underwear story of my own. My uncle, who lives in Upper Pinch Ridge, West Virginia, has a very successful company there called Power Plant Services. Anyway, years ago he came out to Hollywood with his family to visit me. I had this girlfriend at the time, and, as luck would have it, she had broken up with me right before they got here. She said that things weren’t working out between us, and that it would just be too painful to meet my family, so she thought that she would just go ahead and end it.

Anyway one of my cars was parked in the garage where she lived. She had put some of my belongings on the car, including a couple of books, and a pair of underwear that she had decided to run down the car antenna. Well, we get to the car, and my uncle, who’s a West Virginia boy, takes one look and says, “What the hell is that?” I just look at him and say, “It looks to me like a pair of 32-inch BVDs. Those must be mine!” It was the perfect ‘Welcome to L.A. moment [laughs].”

Robert Ray Shafer

Last question. If you had one piece of advice to offer other aspiring actors, what would that be?

If you want to make it in this business, you have to outwork everybody. When other people are having a good time at the bars on a Friday night, you are in theatre class. You have to outwork people. You have to learn the craft. You can’t think that you are going to get by on good looks, or charisma. Acting is a serious business.

My best buddy, Nick Vallelonga, just won two Academy Awards for Green Book – Best Original Screenplay, and Best Motion Picture of the Year. We had been working our way up for nearly twenty years, and at one point I finally said to him, “Listen, we’ve got quit acting like we’ve made it, because we haven’t made it. There’s no reason that we should be out at the best bar in L.A. on a Saturday night. We’ve got to outwork these fools.” He’s a regular guy from New Jersey, and I’m a regular guy from Pinch Ridge, West Virginia. Nobody gave me anything out here. I had no connections. I wasn’t born into it. I just worked my ass off and never quit.

Editor’s Note: Robert Ray Shafer’s scenes in Between Two Ferns: The Movie were not included in the original release. There’s no doubt that they were funny as hell.